roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 3, 2018 13:39:05 GMT -6
roguedragon05 Honestly, there's not going to be a next time for me. The delayed codes was bad, the lack of communication was bad, the blindsiding us with DRM was bad, but actually refusing to release the game in all regions when the backers are from all regions? I'm beyond refusing to support Inti Creates at this point, I'm planning on actively rubbing this in their face any time they ever try to get involved in a crowdfunded project in the future. The quality of their games doesn't mean anything if they're going to treat backers like this. Internal company policies be damned, this project wasn't theirs to trash like this. They've earned a lifetime of anti-hype from me from all this. Honestly I don't blame you at all, I'm just looking at it this way if Curse of the Moon had someone else distributing, this whole breakdown would have been avoided. I don't think Inti is being assholes for the sake of being assholes they are just out of their league when it comes to getting their game out. This is EXACTLY WHY we have distributors, publishers AND developers. Me personally if I ever see an Inti game for sale and it looks really good in the future, yea I'll still get it, but investing in them to have the same responsibilities as they have had this time? Nope not gonna happen. But so far as Bloodstained goes I wouldn't invest in another project anyways, not for any negative reasons I just don't think it should be a continuing business model for IGA and crew, nor do I think they really want it to be.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jun 3, 2018 14:03:56 GMT -6
roguedragon05 Whether or not they're trying to be jerks isn't the issue. They've been on board with Bloodstained since the beginning, so they definitely knew the Kickstarter was advertised to have a DRM-free version available. It wasn't inexperience that made them fail to comply with the spirit of that advertisement. They chose to put their internal policy above their obligation to the backers. It may have been inexperience that made them fail to realize that the Japan region doesn't encompass all of Asia, but choosing to throw their hands up and go "oh well" instead of working to get the game published in region 3 was, again, a choice. Inexperience may have led them to underestimate how long it would take to get backer codes ready for all platforms, but - and you may see a pattern here - it was their choice to let that stand instead of pushing back the release date until they could supply the backers with their codes. That's three separate points on which they actively made a choice that the people who made the game they developed possible didn't matter. And there has been nothing in their communication or lack thereof that suggests that they are remorseful for this or plan to correct their behavior in future projects. So I don't care whether they are publishing or not, their very involvement in any future projects will make it an instant pass for me, and I will be sure to let any potential backers or customers know why.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 3, 2018 14:13:58 GMT -6
Yeah. I bet IGA is absolutely furious about this too, he wouldn't be able to say much especially because he's such a nice guy, but it seems like he's undergoing a lot of stress and hassle because he gave Inti a chance and they just let him and his fans down like this.
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Post by Cale on Jun 3, 2018 14:25:12 GMT -6
Ya, no matter how I feel about what has transpired I know that Iga is passionate about this game. I can imagine how I would feel if I was making something and needed to trust someone else, only to have them let me down. When he announced the original delay he had tears in his eyes. This must be a horrible experience for him right now. I think now more than ever he needs to know that his fans still support him, and some understanding and compassion would go a long way.
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roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 3, 2018 14:28:35 GMT -6
Scars UnseenSo far as the DRM free bit goes I totally agree that that's one issue that is unforgivable, it's also one issue I'm not solely laying at Inti's feet, in fact I don't even really think the DRM thing is there fault to be honest. I don't expect companies to lay out all their rules to the public and such everytime they do business but your right this issue HAD to have come up, papers had to be signed and commitments had to be made, I suppose it's somehow possible that the subject of DRM never came up but I can't imagine that and even if that is the case it should have been regardless the backers should have been notified YEARS ago that there would be no DRM free options for Curse and that is something I hold Fangamer, Artplay, IGA responsible for. As far as having an obligation to make a DRM free game... I agree that they should have but I don't know if you could argue, at least in a legal sense that they had a responsibility too. Not publishing in R3, again I agree that's beyond moronic... from the tweet I read it said that Artplay was the one that didn't realize the region difference. I don't know if that's IGA sharing responsibility or if thats evidence of a lack of communication between Art and Inti, but regardless thats just messed up and everyone has always said thus far that Inti is in complete charge of Curse of the Moon. I don't know if it costs money to put a game on different regions (I imagine it does) or if there are other commitments that they simply cannot meet. But as I said if they just got someone else publish none of this wouldn't have been an issue. I really don't disagree or blame you for your choices, all I was saying before is that Inti can't and shouldn't publish their own games in any future projects. If they want to do it for their own games fine of course, but anyone dealing with them in the future definitely shouldn't let them publish anything.
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roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 3, 2018 14:36:47 GMT -6
Ya, no matter how I feel about what has transpired I know that Iga is passionate about this game. I can imagine how I would feel if I was making something and needed to trust someone else, only to have them let me down. When he announced the original delay he had tears in his eyes. This must be a horrible experience for him right now. I think now more than ever he needs to know that his fans still support him, and some understanding and compassion would go a long way. Maybe after this is all over somebody should send him a bottle of "white" wine (I read somewhere that he actually perfers white wine but red is more striking in the pictures and what not) with a note that says we still believe in you.
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Post by Cranium on Jun 3, 2018 14:50:04 GMT -6
Didn't know about that original delay announcement. Sounds rough. I'm definitely into the idea of doing something to show him he still has our support.
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Post by Persephone on Jun 3, 2018 15:00:42 GMT -6
I agree 100%. IGA, ArtPlay, 505, and Fangamer shouldn't be the ones paying for the blunder that Inti created. If anything, they're the ones that are trying to remedy the situation the best they can, while it seems that Inti doesn't want to roll up their sleeves and fix their own mistakes.
I also agree with showing IGA we still support him. In fact, I feel very strongly that this needs to happen to boost his morale; I can't imagine how badly he feels about this whole situation.
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Post by Waifu4Life on Jun 3, 2018 15:01:11 GMT -6
Didn't know about that original delay announcement. Sounds rough. I'm definitely into the idea of doing something to show him he still has our support. Delays are quite frequent and in fact, I would prefer these would happen more often instead of having a buggy game that gets patched up later on. I do believe that most of us that answered the survey also agree with this notion.
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Jun 3, 2018 16:16:07 GMT -6
Maybe another doughnut donation to Iga and his team is in order?
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 3, 2018 16:37:54 GMT -6
Cale By all means, entertain that idea. Anyone else among us who's willing to send this hard-working team more free sweets is an okay person in my book. What do you think of this, XombieMike?
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 3, 2018 16:43:23 GMT -6
Maybe another doughnut donation to Iga and his team is in order? Oh man. I need to go and look at all those pics again. They make me happy lol
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 3, 2018 17:04:19 GMT -6
I had a Krispy Kreme avatar for a while and really pulled for this to happen, and turned out they had one of those right next to the old ArtPlay office location. It was good times man
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Angel-Corlux
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Post by Angel-Corlux on Jun 3, 2018 17:41:45 GMT -6
IntiCreates are really messing up on this whole situation. I am normally very, very lenient with problems of this sort because I always give the benefit of the doubt and I believe mistake can happen, and I try not to spread negativity and defend stuff if I feel like it's right for me to do so, but now I'm starting to get pissed off. I think that as of now, an official statement is just imperative, and it MUST show CLEARLY who's responsible for this mess. Because delaying codes is one thing, but not releasing the game for an entire console region is sheer lunacy and whoever's responsible must put his own face and accept the screw up. This can cause massive, damaging bad press for IGA and the main game and as far as I'm understanding they literally didn't do anything and it's not his fault. But try explaining that to people who'll be extremely pissed about it (and they have any right to be at this point) without an official statement who clears the situation about responsibility. Inti MUST release official informations about the DRM situation, which was pretty awkward per se, and especially on this absolutely outrageous mess-up on the Asian codes. I don't know if Question or Angel-Corlux is the most appropriate person to involve regarding this matter. I don't want to sound excessively harsh or tell you how to do your job but I believe that this situation has to be publicly addressed in some way. It's not about delays anymore, but we're literally talking about people not receiving the game entirely and that's pretty serious even if you don't take the expected media backlash into account. I apologize if I come off as arrogant or anything like that, but I'm pretty upset by the statement I read. Hey there, I totally understand that the situation is frustrating for the fans who are affected by the issues mentioned.
Regarding an official comment, one was just recently made by ArtPlay in the latest monthly Kickstarter Update.
Anything beyond that would have to be said by Inti Creates, unfortunately Question and I, or anyone else at 505 Games, can't really help in regards to CotM. As I'm sure you're aware, that's because Inti Creates was solely responsible for developing and publishing CotM.
We (505) hope and look forward to all outstanding issues with CotM being resolved as soon as possible.
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roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Jun 3, 2018 17:47:26 GMT -6
Angel-CorluxThanks for letting us know your listening and working on the issue's.
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Post by Waifu4Life on Jun 3, 2018 17:51:06 GMT -6
Maybe another doughnut donation to Iga and his team is in order? Part of a complete breakfast
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 3, 2018 18:22:52 GMT -6
Cale By all means, entertain that idea. Anyone else among us who's willing to send this hard-working team more free sweets is an okay person in my book. What do you think of this, XombieMike ? Unfortunately I don't think donuts are going to fix any of this. We need and deserve more transparent communication with IntiCreates. IGA knows he has our support. We just gave him a great 50th birthday gift. With E3 and the demo coming around soon, things could be minimized with the press at large, but a pissed off backer community is going to undercut the potential to put Bloodstained in the main stream. I am tempted, but will refrain for now, on talking with cecil-kain about using the force that is Operation Akumajo to flood IntiCreate's inboxes, Twitter and Facebook with demands for answers to a preset list of questions. However, I don't like the end game in that unless it's the only way. Pushing that message far will let the world and all Bloodstained fans see there is a hole in the armor that is the integrity of the brand. We must keep the brand in mind for IGA's success. IGA is paying for the refunds to Region 3, not IntiCreates. I imagine his attitude is to make things right at an expense now to save the brand overall, especially right now as a lot of marketing beats are coming up. Here is what I propose instead. Unlike with IntiCreates we have an excellent open access to IGA himself through Mana. I say we put together a list of very short and concise questions that will put this all in perspective. We will pass them by IGA and get ArtPlay to push them to Matt Papa at IntiCreates. I want to believe that Matt really wants to do right by the backers even though his communications haven't met our requirements since he came on the podcast so long ago. Now, everyone, please come up with SHORT easy to translate questions that will address the following issues: 1. The code release delays to backers. 2. "Region 3" not being available for PS4 and Vita. What we are NOT going to approach them about is GoG. They have already answered that question. IntiCreates Will require DRM on their games as a means of anti piracy. That's their stance and it's not going anywhere. So, hit me with the questions and I'll update this post with those that fit the mission.
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 3, 2018 18:24:19 GMT -6
Side note, about 6:30 in or so they address this:
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Post by Cranium on Jun 3, 2018 18:36:45 GMT -6
God, I really want to say something about that stream apology but... Its real hard. We're days away from it being multiple weeks late, which as you can see in the video they said it wouldn't be. I know its an apology but it really doesn't feel good.
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Post by Persephone on Jun 3, 2018 19:04:45 GMT -6
Unfortunately I don't think donuts are going to fix any of this... IGA knows he has our support. We just gave him a great 50th birthday gift. That may be so, XombieMike , but that was before the CotM debacle. Even if it's not donuts or white wine, I think it'd be important to let him know that even with the issues we've had with Inti, that we do not blame him, even if it's just via an email (or maybe a card?). If I were in his position, it would make me feel better to know that the community had my back and didn't hold the mistakes Inti made with CotM against me. As for the short, easily translatable questions: I'll definitely try and think something up.
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