Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms 
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Oct 27, 2024 12:45:42 GMT -6
1,287
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,908
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Apr 3, 2018 14:34:36 GMT -6
For related discussions, please see
bloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/2927/icons-objects-items-equipment-menubloodstainedfanforums.com/thread/2464/item-drops-chests-little-bugHey Army of the Night. I have a question about the loot-bags.
Bags are random generated by enemies and contain all different kind of things. Potions, materials, armor and weapons, perhaps even food!
Now, there are some fans that would love for either a 3D rotating icon-item instead, some would love a 2D icon. But since this game is pretty "heavy" with the reality-feel (even though its gothic horror fantasy).. We kinda need to talk about these bags we currently have.
Reason we have bag is to let "too many items" not take too much space on the floor/ground, and keeping it a mystery as well as giving you a fair fantasy around how these items are picked up. Example: If you wouldn't have a whip in a bag, it would lay around like a dead snake. While this would make it more real, it would take more space, and it might look a bit less cool (perhaps even dumb).
Would you want anything else than bags? Spawning chest? Item direct into your inventory? Many things cluttering the floor? Different bags depending on loot?
Note: I will try to find an image of the bag as a drop from an enemy, if you have, please upload! Bags are seen in demos when you destroy the crate or the wall on Galleon Minerva.
Answers I recieved from Facebook during the first hour only can be read below!
Lucas: Having extra items on the floor give us a sense of fulfillment of "Look how many items i collected." Its more brain stimulating. (I studied 1 year of game design). The 2D items are ok and it gives us that old school feel. I would like to see those 2D pixel icons. No rotating please. It is ugly AF. Unless they use the 3D thing for special items and 2D for basics. But 2D pixel is the way for me. Luke: I like the idea of random mystery loot. It adds a layer of excitement to item farming. Maybe tiered bags would be cool though. Like different ranks from a drab cloth sack to a golden bag, each rank holding better and better items? Maybe treasure chests at top tier? Something really rare to really get players excited. Kevin: I'd like 2D sprites with no rotating. That's more reserved for 3D polygon games. Alexis: Either one is fine, honestly. It’s a very minor esthetic thing that doesn’t really have any relevance, if you ask me XD I mean, I’m not gonna go ‘Well, Bloodstained had solid gameplay, great voice acting, sweet music, but the loot bag was a 2D sprite instead of a rotating 3D image, so 7/10’ Steven: I like letting the smaller, Less important items scatter on the floor. Nothing like a loot explosion to make me smile. For rare drops a chest would be appropriate. Then maybe some money bags for larger currency drops. Jeff: don't mind the bag idea. though, I know I don't want items straight to inventory. feels like it would take away from the drop. I agree with the 2d pixel idea. and no, don't rotate. Craig: What about different colored bags for different loot types? A ragged and old bag for the common items. A leather like bag for uncommon, then a gold or silver silk looking bag for rare loot? When you pick it up, maybe add items to the loot and the rare bags give you a certain amount of gold as it disappears. - Kevin: I like this idea A LOT. Kinda reminds me of Destiny's engram drops. -- Craig: Except I'm sure these would actually mean something and work properly --- Jeff: agreed with tiered bags Adam: 2D is fine, I just want to be able to see something and know what it is without having to collect it. Kevin: I think this would work better as a vote. Enkeria: Reminder, the prequal is in pixel-art, and 2D. How the loot / items are handled there are yet to be seen.Gunnar: A pop up that let you know what you got and have it end up directly into your inventory would be nice honestly. Also prevents players from missing out on items if they exit a room too fast when grinding endlessly. Curt: "there are some fans that would love ..." the game to be finally released.
|
|
gunlord500
Global Moderator 
Hyped for Bloodstained 2!
Posts: 1,109
inherit
177
0
1
Oct 31, 2024 22:11:53 GMT -6
914
gunlord500
Hyped for Bloodstained 2!
1,109
Jun 20, 2015 23:53:30 GMT -6
June 2015
gunlord500
|
Post by gunlord500 on Apr 3, 2018 15:07:13 GMT -6
I would honestly prefer having the icon of whatever the enemy dropped fall on the ground, rather than being hidden in a "bag" of any sort. However, I also strongly agree with Gunnar, in previous IGA games it really pissed me off when I missed an item that fell on the ground due to leaving the room too fast.
|
|
inherit
2329
0
Jul 23, 2021 0:24:13 GMT -6
13
Masquerade
[TI1]
29
Mar 22, 2018 18:42:09 GMT -6
March 2018
masquerade
|
Post by Masquerade on Apr 3, 2018 16:01:19 GMT -6
Here’s my input on that. In secret of mana enemies spawned chests and these chests would have random items in them like fairie walnuts and candy for health and magic purposes. But one great thing about it was, that there was always a chance you might get a death chest. If you opened it and didn’t run away you’d die when you opened the chest. I think a neat mechanic would be something similar. Depending on the death animation, let’s say something like this. Miriam blows up a decent sized gargoyle. The gargoyle explodes and this orb/flame looking thing comes out of it and materializes on the ground as a chest or whatever. And Miriam opens the chest and can find all kinds of items like mentioned in the thread. But a neat little troll would be that every once and a while a reaper enemy would pop out and stab Miriam. Like some kind of goblin would halfway pop out the chest with a long knife and stab her in the stomach taking her life all the way down to one and if you want to go to the extreme, whatever else that isn’t permanent (magic, ammo, items etc.)
Or, you that could just be complementary to the loot bags that common enemies frequently drop. It can be more like a “guaranteed” rare item. Just please, don’t take after xenoblade 2’s RNG .
|
|
Busterific
Hairy Old Man
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 249
inherit
Hairy Old Man
1697
0
Mar 30, 2022 13:03:31 GMT -6
222
Busterific
249
Aug 19, 2016 16:36:35 GMT -6
August 2016
busterific
|
Post by Busterific on Apr 3, 2018 19:08:31 GMT -6
I tend to like it when there is a good scattering of loot to pick up. I don't have a real preference regarding pixel art vs 3d rotating pickups as long as the loot doesn't blend into the background too much.
I like the idea of trapped chests, but don't know how well that would fit in with dropped items. I think I prefer the existing loot bags, but if there were chest drops that were somewhat rare in comparison to regular drops it could work.
|
|
inherit
1574
0
Jul 25, 2019 8:28:19 GMT -6
53
kronfarfar
75
Jun 25, 2016 4:22:43 GMT -6
June 2016
kronfarfar
|
Post by kronfarfar on Apr 4, 2018 0:21:05 GMT -6
I would like 2d sprites of the actual drops if it doesn't look out of place on a 2.5D plane.
Otherwise I think Craig's idea with the different colored bags would also be nice.
|
|
inherit
843
0
Sept 23, 2019 11:30:03 GMT -6
194
allooutrick
334
Oct 21, 2015 14:22:26 GMT -6
October 2015
allooutrick
|
Post by allooutrick on Apr 4, 2018 17:38:31 GMT -6
Why not a motionless 3D object? It just slumps onto the floor and sits?
|
|
Busterific
Hairy Old Man
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 249
inherit
Hairy Old Man
1697
0
Mar 30, 2022 13:03:31 GMT -6
222
Busterific
249
Aug 19, 2016 16:36:35 GMT -6
August 2016
busterific
|
Post by Busterific on Apr 4, 2018 18:00:28 GMT -6
... and every once in a while when you go to pick an item up it randomly runs away from you. I think that may have been something the Secret of Mana chests did every now and again too if I'm remembering right.
|
|
Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
Posts: 1,068
inherit
Legendary Comrade
445
0
Oct 20, 2019 3:32:00 GMT -6
1,600
Pure Miriam
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
1,068
Jul 25, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -6
July 2015
puremiriam
|
Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 5, 2018 3:48:28 GMT -6
 The item Bag
To me, the item bag has a obvious role, to make it easier for the dev team to create item drops.
Instead of creating 100+ itens that the player will probably not see it for more than few seconds before picking up, you have a single, generic 3d bag to fill up for anything. I honestly believe the bag item is to fasten development speed and cut time / costs on developing graphics that the player usually will not pay too much attention to it anyways.
That aside, i would like if each drop had it's particular graphic, but to me, the usage of the bag to fill up everything is not bad and is particularly a minor thing in the scope of things.
|
|
Yän
Herald of the Moon
Loyal Familiar
Posts: 476
inherit
Herald of the Moon
1316
0
Jan 2, 2022 8:01:36 GMT -6
415
Yän
476
Jun 12, 2016 6:59:44 GMT -6
June 2016
yaen
|
Post by Yän on Apr 5, 2018 8:17:29 GMT -6
Bags instead of icons changes the loot dynamic quite a bit.
Remember the clock tower section in SotN with three items on three pedestals that are visible but out of reach? Seeing what those items are really made you want to have them. Generic same-ey wooden chests wouldn't have the same effect.
Also, think about enemies with a common and a rare drop - maybe you're farming for that rare one but aren't interested in the common one at all. Now you'd have to pick it up anyway, taking extra time for it and being disappointed most of the time.
I like the idea of colored bags (and chests!) and I had the same idea before I even read it. In general, giving items color variations to signify different effects is a great time-saving gamedev-trick that usually works pretty well. Perhaps there should be some subtle pattern-variations on the bags too for color-blind folk. That said, maybe it's also cool to have different colors based on item-type instead of rarity. Consumables are blue, crafting materials are brown, armor is gray, weapons are red, etc etc... That would give you a more specific idea of what that drop may be rather than just knowing how rare something is. At the same time there would still be enough mystery around it to keep you intrigued.
|
|
Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Oct 27, 2024 12:45:42 GMT -6
1,287
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,908
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Apr 5, 2018 13:02:10 GMT -6
|
|
Angel-Corlux
505 Games
Official Staff
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
Posts: 253
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: WIP
inherit
505 Games
1927
0
1
Dec 3, 2019 13:05:57 GMT -6
965
Angel-Corlux
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
253
Jul 26, 2017 10:59:55 GMT -6
July 2017
angel
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: WIP
|
Post by Angel-Corlux on Apr 5, 2018 13:36:00 GMT -6
I see all
That is all
|
|
fatihG
Devil Forgemaster
Fifty Storms
I am the morning sun, come to vanquish this horrible night!
Posts: 313
inherit
Devil Forgemaster
1312
0
1
May 26, 2021 21:25:49 GMT -6
342
fatihG
I am the morning sun, come to vanquish this horrible night!
313
Jun 9, 2016 17:36:43 GMT -6
June 2016
fatihg
|
Post by fatihG on Apr 6, 2018 16:22:12 GMT -6
"Reason we have bag is to let "too many items" not take too much space on the floor/ground"
When/where has this been stated?
From what I have seen every bag just contains 1 item.
I have zero problem with the items just being bags
I dont really care too much about them either way.
The only inconvenience i can see happen is that you need to pick every single bag up when you are farming for a specific item.
This is especially bothersome when using long range weapons/abilities.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Nov 22, 2024 16:16:48 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 6, 2018 16:58:32 GMT -6
I personally really don't want this thing where the drop automatically pops into your inventory. I want to see it drop on the screen and be excited about it. Sure, you might miss it if you're quickly transitioning screens while farming a lot, but...that's kind of a fringe concern isn't it? Just slow down a little lol. I don't enjoy doing that in general.
|
|
Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,908
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Oct 27, 2024 12:45:42 GMT -6
1,287
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,908
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Apr 6, 2018 17:09:31 GMT -6
fatihG It was during a panel, or an interview. The question were brought up and I believe Mana translated into "so its not too cluttered" or similar. If only I could remember which interview / panel it was! edit: hinting at materials, which then later on brought up to Angel "so are crafting still in the game?" and thats how that subject started again, followed by the quote "nothing have been cut" by Angel. If I am not mistaken.
|
|
fatihG
Devil Forgemaster
Fifty Storms
I am the morning sun, come to vanquish this horrible night!
Posts: 313
inherit
Devil Forgemaster
1312
0
1
May 26, 2021 21:25:49 GMT -6
342
fatihG
I am the morning sun, come to vanquish this horrible night!
313
Jun 9, 2016 17:36:43 GMT -6
June 2016
fatihg
|
Post by fatihG on Apr 6, 2018 17:16:23 GMT -6
Not too cluttered could mean visual clutter as well.
For example a hot pink whip. Electric sword. fiery eyeball. Ice axe. etc.
Which means allot of effects and colour on screen
Vs 5 bags which visually are the same.
This will look allot more natural. 'Visually'.
But yeah, its a bit vague.
|
|
Astaroth
Fifty Storms
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
Posts: 1,213
inherit
57
0
Jan 4, 2022 11:47:39 GMT -6
1,368
Astaroth
What a wonderful night to have a curse...
1,213
Jun 10, 2015 20:22:05 GMT -6
June 2015
astaroth
|
Post by Astaroth on Apr 6, 2018 18:24:14 GMT -6
this is dependent on how things are actually coded, but it wouldnt surprise me if the line that calls up the bag model has the bag as the default/debug object and once all the menu icons/models for items are in the game then theyll start looking at changing the drops into the matching contents
both methods work for me, but if the bags end up looking better for inworld drops or the bag adds to the antici pation of what you get then im all for it
|
|
Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
Posts: 1,068
inherit
Legendary Comrade
445
0
Oct 20, 2019 3:32:00 GMT -6
1,600
Pure Miriam
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
1,068
Jul 25, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -6
July 2015
puremiriam
|
Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 7, 2018 1:52:08 GMT -6
I also didn't remember that about the screen not being too cluttered with itens. But i guess it kinda makes sense.
Back in 2015/16, IGA gave a interview where he said that, considering what they were planning for the game (materials drop, itens drop, gear drop, shard drop (that at the time they didn't had a unified plan for it) and the fact that, dropping stuff would be way more important for this game than it was on most other Igavanias, the game would have a higher drop rate than your common Igavania.
If Bloodstained really ends up with a overall higher drop rate than what we are used to on other Igavanias, then it makes sense to use bags. It's kinda like Resident Evil 4 back in PS2, when they decided to give enemies, drop stuff like gold and ammo, and if you killed a bunch of enemies at the same time, the screen where cluttered with shining stuff all around, breaking a lot of the game's immersion.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Nov 22, 2024 16:16:48 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 10, 2018 7:56:46 GMT -6
I liked that about RE4 though...I never thought/realized it broke or disturbed anything. The game at baseline is pretty ridiculous so I guess it felt fine. I think I can be "immersed" in a very video game-ish video game just as well as I can be something that stays realistic. Preferably things aren't realistic, even.
2D icons popping up everywhere might look kinda wacky, sure. At least the icon does pop out of the bag when you open it. Astaroth makes a good point too about it being kind of a placeholder before all the icons are/were finished. I guess it's not a big deal either way.
|
|
quack
yey