Pure Miriam
Legendary Comrade
Shardbinder
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
Posts: 1,068
inherit
Legendary Comrade
445
0
Oct 20, 2019 3:32:00 GMT -6
1,600
Pure Miriam
[TI1] "A new, vital heart, pulsing with the old blood." -IGA
1,068
Jul 25, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -6
July 2015
puremiriam
|
Post by Pure Miriam on Mar 31, 2018 3:11:26 GMT -6
The dev team confirmed long time ago that Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night will have a quest system. Before such confirmation, i created a very old thread talking about that possibility. With all the information we have now, we can reopen such discussion. The only Igavania games to ever had quests was Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia. PORTRAIT OF RUIN QUESTS
Not long after the beginning of the game, you can have acess to the game's shop and, at a further room, to a ghost called Wind (who is actually the spirit of Eric Lecarde) that offers you quests in exchange for rewards. Most of them are pretty basic, such as "find X" or "kill Y" but some of them are way more interesting and hard to grasp what you actually have to do in order to beat them. ORDER OF ECCLESIA QUESTS
Order of Ecclesia has a village where the villagers can be rescured and they offer quests. A particular thing on Order is the fact that the game is harder than the usual Igavania and the quests also reflect that. Not only some of them require really rare itens that either have a low drop chance or are hard to find, but some of them are the ONLY way to actually update the game's shop with new itens. You need to do quests to add better potions, food and gear at the shop, that simply doesn't automatically updates it's contents as the game progresses. Considering how quests were handled before, answer these questions: 1) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night actually needs a quest system? Do you believe a quest system is something that adds more depth and replay value to the game or may be something distracting and not very useful? 2) What character / characters do you believe will offer quests for Miriam to finish? 3) What kinds of quests do think the game will have, or would you like the game to have? 4) What kinds of prizes do you expect the quests to offer? Rare or exclusive materials? Gear? Shards? 5) What do you think about continuous or unlimited quests? This exist in some MMORPGs. Some kind of quest that can be repeated infinitely, and you can receive the same reward again and again. 6) Would you like if the game had some kind of quest that is mandatory to progress? Or maybe some quest that, if you don't do, you don't get the full castle / ending / true final boss? 7) Would you like if the second and third character's modes also had quests to complete? 8) Portrait of Ruin had 37 quests. Order of Ecclesia had 36 quests. How many quests do you expect and/or want Bloodstained to have? That's all folks!
|
|
inherit
1881
0
Oct 29, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -6
449
freddythemonkey
489
May 23, 2017 4:59:35 GMT -6
May 2017
freddythemonkey
|
Post by freddythemonkey on Mar 31, 2018 4:50:29 GMT -6
Cool thread! Here are my answers:
1) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night actually needs a quest system? Do you believe a quest system is something that adds more depth and replay value to the game or may be something distracting and not very useful?
Maybe it doesn't NEED it, I mean we've had plenty of IGAvanias without it, but I for one love these kind of systems in my adventure games. It makes me think I've got something tangible to do other than progress the main story. Of course it depend on the quest, but fundamentally yes, I think it's a very beneficial thing to have.
2) What character / characters do you believe will offer quests for Miriam to finish?
Probably multiple characters. Johannes and Dominique I think are a given, but that may be others.
3) What kinds of quests do think the game will have, or would you like the game to have?
Fetch quests and "go kill X" are fine, but I'd prefer something a little bit more creative. Like investigating an area in a peculiar way to access a secret section. My dream is to have some kind of tag-team mission with an AI controlled character such as "Team up with Dominique to defeat the vampire/monster/thing that hid in the castle to elude the church", that would be so awesome and bring something very new to the table.
4) What kinds of prizes do you expect the quests to offer? Rare or exclusive materials? Gear? Shards?
Probably a mix of materials, gold and gear, but I don't think shards will be prizes as Miriam is the only good character we've seen (SO FAR) that can manipulate them, so I don't know how someone could give you a shard.
Another interesting reward would be some optional areas, enemies or bosses, or gaining access to secret rooms.
5) What do you think about continuous or unlimited quests? This exist in some MMORPGs. Some kind of quest that can be repeated infinitely, and you can receive the same reward again and again.
I don't like the concept. The only repeatable things would be fetch quests or "kill X" quests in my book, and I think those are repetitive enough even if you don't do them over and over. Unique quests please.
6) Would you like if the game had some kind of quest that is mandatory to progress? Or maybe some quest that, if you don't do, you don't get the full castle / ending / true final boss?
It could be fine as long as it's not missable/timed or anything. Nothing worse than having you progress cut short because you missed something essential. That's archaic game design. If they're not timed, I don't see the problem. If you think about it, many games actually have "disguised" mandatory subquests to advance the plot, only that they're called objectives and such. Anyway, if they are integral to the plot, they need to be very carefully written and implemented to have the best effect.
7) Would you like if the second and third character's modes also had quests to complete?
I would like the bonus characters to have their own campaigns, even if they're short. Short unique campaign >>>>>> replaying the entire game with a different character IMO. If that's not the case, then at least unique side quests could make the replaying feel less repetitive and more peculiar to each character.
8) Portrait of Ruin had 37 quests. Order of Ecclesia had 36 quests. How many quests do you expect and/or want Bloodstained to have?
Probably around 40 quests to accommodate for Bloodstained's size, but i'd be very fine with just 20 unique, semi complex quests, cutting the very simple/grindy ones to a minimum.
|
|
JeffCross
Shadow of the Night
Ancient Legion
[TI0] Die monster!!!!!!
Posts: 1,365
inherit
Shadow of the Night
46
0
Aug 2, 2019 16:52:01 GMT -6
711
JeffCross
[TI0] Die monster!!!!!!
1,365
Jun 9, 2015 16:58:57 GMT -6
June 2015
jeffcross773
|
Post by JeffCross on Mar 31, 2018 12:48:17 GMT -6
1) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night actually needs a quest system? Do you believe a quest system is something that adds more depth and replay value to the game or may be something distracting and not very useful?
personally I think games like this don't need quest systems... but if they really want it in the game ok I guess... as long as progression is not controlled by those quests (eg locked doors, or areas you can't go to because the ones making the quests hasn't told you about the area... that to me is lame...)
If they are just fetch quests or "busy" quests I am ok with those... I don't want to see them
2) What character / characters do you believe will offer quests for Miriam to finish?
if there are multiple quest givers then ok... but is there is one main one I think it will be Dominique. In the interview she said she bosses Miriam around... that might be a clue... but who knows lol.
3) What kinds of quests do think the game will have, or would you like the game to have?
I prefer fetch quests that will open up new recipes for forging. alchemy, cooking etc...
4) What kinds of prizes do you expect the quests to offer? Rare or exclusive materials? Gear? Shards?
Knowledge?... is that fair to use as an answer? I think moves, recipes, or even secrets should be the prizes for completing the quests.
5) What do you think about continuous or unlimited quests? This exist in some MMORPGs. Some kind of quest that can be repeated infinitely, and you can receive the same reward again and again.
sure... that might be a great way to re-fight bosses. you can only re-fight the boss if you accept the quest lol.
6) Would you like if the game had some kind of quest that is mandatory to progress? Or maybe some quest that, if you don't do, you don't get the full castle / ending / true final boss?
No please... maybe one or two (like the first few ones) but having quests, to me ruins the immersive "adventuring" these games have... I feel if there is a quest available then I feel like I have to do it... I don't like that...
7) Would you like if the second and third character's modes also had quests to complete?
yeah that would be cool to have character specific quests... but their move sets need to be fleshed out... including their inventory system (eg ability to use different weapons and equip different armor)
8) Portrait of Ruin had 37 quests. Order of Ecclesia had 36 quests. How many quests do you expect and/or want Bloodstained to have?
if they do have quests I would think over 100 lol... as long as they are not tied to the story I am cool with it.
|
|
Lestaroth
Wall Mac Hunter
Fifty Storms
[TI0]I have returned. Also find me in the credits!
Posts: 465
inherit
Wall Mac Hunter
1804
0
Jul 13, 2019 14:38:11 GMT -6
368
Lestaroth
[TI0]I have returned. Also find me in the credits!
465
Jan 24, 2017 7:35:36 GMT -6
January 2017
lestaroth
|
Post by Lestaroth on Apr 1, 2018 15:14:36 GMT -6
Hello friend, it's been ages.
Let's see... Quests should give a bit of coinage and items (maybe some weapons/armor that are stronger than anything you can find at that point -before finding that ability to progress further-). I am not certain about experience, though. Maybe a bit to be nice, but it should never bring too much. Repeatables? Please, no. Quest givers? Various NPCs, Johannes, Dominique, Anne and as a plot twist, some vanquished bosses that will not die, maybe some higher-tier unique familiars before they join Miriam.
The quests would be the usual "fetch this", "make that item for me", "reach achievements" and the classic "kill these monsters for us!" and eventually vital ones to progress in the story. Dust: An Elysian Tail did it nicely.
Yes, I'd want quests for the other playable characters. Once again, I felt sad when other chars than the protagonist had nothing beyond the classicvania gameplay in games like CSOTN, PoR and OoE...
How many of them? I don't mind, as long as they're balanced and not chore-like/unrealistic.They should be fun, no matter what.
Bye bye!
|
|
Sustained
New Blood
"All was had Til love it lost To brighten's fade On dingy ghost."
Posts: 21
inherit
2296
0
May 31, 2019 22:06:02 GMT -6
29
Sustained
"All was had Til love it lost To brighten's fade On dingy ghost."
21
Feb 10, 2018 15:23:48 GMT -6
February 2018
sustained
|
Post by Sustained on Apr 14, 2018 14:34:25 GMT -6
I'm happy to see that quests have made it into the game. This style of game is great for questing as its gameplay already involves a great deal of backtracking. Quests lend purpose to the adventure.
Sure, quest rewards are great to have but I am not so concerned about the content of the rewards.
My primary concern with the questing system is that I want it to be used as a means of fleshing out the content of Miriam and NPC personalities and to add history and flavor to the setting and the story. I like the idea of quests being "little stories" for the player to get caught up in.
I will be disappointed if the storytelling assets on the development team do not shine through the quests.
|
|
roguedragon05
Loyal Familiar
[TI1]"In his own right he is a God yet he tries to be a man and in that denies his own greatness"
Posts: 489
inherit
170
0
May 8, 2022 8:48:04 GMT -6
383
roguedragon05
[TI1]"In his own right he is a God yet he tries to be a man and in that denies his own greatness"
489
Jun 17, 2015 20:05:38 GMT -6
June 2015
roguedragon05
|
Post by roguedragon05 on May 23, 2018 8:19:54 GMT -6
1) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night actually needs a quest system? Do you believe a quest system is something that adds more depth and replay value to the game or may be something distracting and not very useful?
I think as long as it's done right it very definitely could be an awesome addition, if all it is fetch this and come back or take this to there then it's a waste of time, however adding story and perhaps area's of the castle that can only be explored or sub bosses to tackle maybe even a couple super bosses it would indeed be an indispensable addition.
2) What character / characters do you believe will offer quests for Miriam to finish?
Dominique? Doesn't really matter. Maybe even a fallen enemy could give you one or two?
4) What kinds of prizes do you expect the quests to offer? Rare or exclusive materials? Gear? Shards?
A few key items some stat upgrades would be nice, maybe something to point out all the secrets in the castle, rare raw material for forging new goods
5) What do you think about continuous or unlimited quests? This exist in some MMORPGs. Some kind of quest that can be repeated infinitely, and you can receive the same reward again and again.
Not really interested myself, unless it was something like hunt down a pack of wolves in the castle and the pack randomly traveled throughout the castle for you to hunt down and you got a useful item everytime you tracked it down.
6) Would you like if the game had some kind of quest that is mandatory to progress? Or maybe some quest that, if you don't do, you don't get the full castle / ending / true final boss?
Meh.... I lean towards no but I'd be willing to let IGA surprise me if he thinks he can do it cleverly.
7) Would you like if the second and third character's modes also had quests to complete?
I would expect it actually, and they should be unique.
8) Portrait of Ruin had 37 quests. Order of Ecclesia had 36 quests. How many quests do you expect and/or want Bloodstained to have?
How many doesnt really concern me, but the more the better I say.
|
|
inherit
1030
0
Jan 8, 2020 21:03:25 GMT -6
58
Squirrel Taskmaster
80
Jan 8, 2016 1:42:10 GMT -6
January 2016
squirreltm
|
Post by Squirrel Taskmaster on May 23, 2018 14:02:15 GMT -6
1) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night actually needs a quest system? Do you believe a quest system is something that adds more depth and replay value to the game or may be something distracting and not very useful? A varied and situational question. At the root I don't think this kind of game needs a quest system, since your primary source of new goodies is chests or monster drops(and in a way stats gained via leveling up). And then, you have to ask yourself what kind of quests are even involved. Do you have something like PoR that's more or less achievements that give a useful reward, or do you want it to be "real" quests with a heavy lore component that isn't required but can supplement the main narrative? In general I don't think they add to replay, unless they're a quest you can only unlock on a new game+(in which it's less value and more held hostage), but those can be maddening for people who would rather just go through a game on the hardest difficulty and fullest experience from the outset.
2) What character / characters do you believe will offer quests for Miriam to finish? Well really, they're sidequests. Anything you can interact with that isn't trying to kill you is fair game to start one from.
3) What kinds of quests do think the game will have, or would you like the game to have? 4) What kinds of prizes do you expect the quests to offer? Rare or exclusive materials? Gear? Shards? I'll combine these two. I do like the notion of achievements-with-benefits. Roughly, the way I'd do it if it were up to me would be to have several that offer progressive bonuses that will help power you up a little as you play, but to flesh it out I'd like to see some that are very specific to your play style, and maybe even some more tricky ones that offer heavier specific rewards when you take the actions to complete them. Here's sort of a rough skeleton of what I mean. First some generics: <School of Hard Knocks I> - Take 1000 damage - max HP +10 <School of Hard Knocks II> - Take 5000 damage - max HP +20 <Hocus Pocus I> - Use magic 200 times - max MP +10 <Hocus Pocus II> - Use magic 1000 times - max MP +20 Now some focuses: <Rawhide I> - Kill 300 monsters with a whip - whip base damage +3 <Kill it With Fire I> - Kill 300 monsters with a fire element attack - base damage of fire element attacks and spells +3 <Brutalizer I> - Deal 2500 physical damage - Strength +2 And as you can probably guess, if your weapon of choice was a flaming whip, you'd be triple-dipping on the bonuses. Lastly, the ones that rely on much more specific actions: <Tesla's Whipping Boy> - Defeat Baron von Mookdemon by electrocuting him with the pylons in his laboratory - base damage of electric element attacks and spells +15 BUT! We don't want to have a situation where a player feels like they don't have a choice either and have to go for the questchievement on a one-shot deal like a boss. So maybe the mechanics of the fight usually require you to short out the pylons in the boss room by zapping yourself; the previous quest is completed by making the boss eat his own zaps instead. However, assuming you do the normal self-short method, you instead get: <Static Cling> - Defeat Baron von Mookdemon while grounding the electrical output of the pylons in his laboratory - defense against electric damage +15 We're not done yet though. Let's say the pylons, if left completely alone, will do more and more damage over time to you. The idea is that you either take less damage by getting directly zapped, or get the boss zapped instead during the fight. Either way, unless one of you is in the area of effect you're going to take the stacking damage, with the intent that you're going to die if you don't make it happen. This brings us to the third possible quest of the fight: <God of Thunder> - Defeat Baron von Mookdemon without either of you grounding the pylons in his laboratory - electric attack and defense +10 A bit better numbers-wise, but it also requires you to either tank the major damage or kill the guy fast enough you don't get fried. In the end you only get one bonus from the fight, but all are useful and the player can make a choice of what will be most useful to them. One major problem with this idea though would be that you'd have to spoil people with the descriptions ahead of time to let them know what they could have done differently, or reveal it afterwards and force them to decide if they want to reload the game without saving to try for a different outcome.
Now... all that long-winded BS said, it's not likely anything like that is happening; at most I wouldn't expect to see anything other than the generic-types. Going back to quests that are important to the story, to be done well they should be a bit longer, and have more tangible rewards like better armor and weapons. Maybe even a few that award crystals you can't get as monster drops. You could have this be reactive too, like if the player has been doing a lot of ice damage you get some equipment with a bonus to that damage type. I'd prefer if they have some kind of puzzles, otherwise you just get what amounts to "Kill a Void Bear and bring back a Non-Euclidean Bear Ass".
5) What do you think about continuous or unlimited quests? This exist in some MMORPGs. Some kind of quest that can be repeated infinitely, and you can receive the same reward again and again. Not a horrid idea, but needs some careful implementation. If the reward is particularly useful, you run the risk of the player being able to use it to cheese the game. If it's of limited use, or only useful the first half of the game, you get people sitting on a pointless mountain of the reward long after they have any reason to do anything with it. To an extent drops from monsters also suffer this problem, especially if they're a consumable like a potion or whatever. It might be better to tie this sort to another type of progression, like killing enough treants gives you a board, enough boards and the safe zone with shop NPCs gets fortified allowing them to sell better stuff, but maybe you can choose where the boards are placed and that determines roughly what will be available to you first.
6) Would you like if the game had some kind of quest that is mandatory to progress? Or maybe some quest that, if you don't do, you don't get the full castle / ending / true final boss? Yes, absolutely. I'm a sucker for the hidden-quest-to-unlock-real-final-areas thing. On a side note, always give such hidden areas the most badass song in the game(except possibly the final boss music), it really cranks up the mood. For more mid-game required quests, I go again to choice and would suggest having a selection players can choose, with so many needed to progress. Or alternately, you can select the order to tackle them in, but each holds a piece needed to get back to primary progress. It doesn't even have to be blatant either, the game can simply come to a point where you either go over The Spooky Walkway or cross The Lake of Slime, each giving a new power, the NPCs setting you a task in each that leads to a power. But, once you come to the end of either you find you need both powers to advance through That Tower on the Other Side of Both.
7) Would you like if the second and third character's modes also had quests to complete? Simple answer, yeah. However, it's long-since standard in games like this that secondary characters will almost never have the degree of fleshed-out quests or objectives that the main one does, and might strip out everything except the most raw combat aspect of the game. Also, as secondary characters, how complete is their own story and motivations compared to the main one? Do you have the time or interest to breath them full of purpose the way you did with the main character? How much room is there for them to do something else within the framework being held up by the leading role's jaunt through the game? So sure it's better, but I don't expect it.
8) Portrait of Ruin had 37 quests. Order of Ecclesia had 36 quests. How many quests do you expect and/or want Bloodstained to have? Depends entirely on what they are. If it's questchievements the only real limit is how many extra conditionals you feel like coding in. If it's full-fledged quests, obviously there will be fewer, further influenced by just how complex they are and how much writing goes into them.
|
|
Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
195
0
Aug 19, 2023 8:35:43 GMT -6
2,620
Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
3,402
Jun 24, 2015 13:36:33 GMT -6
June 2015
galamoth
|
Post by Galamoth on May 23, 2018 20:24:11 GMT -6
Can't believe I haven't answered in this thread yet. I must! The questions have compelled me!
1) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night actually needs a quest system? Do you believe a quest system is something that adds more depth and replay value to the game or may be something distracting and not very useful?
While I don't think this game necessarily "needs" a quest system (similarly, Castlevania: Curse of Darkness didn't necessarily "need" a crafting system either), I would agree that it potentially adds both depth and replay value.
2) What character / characters do you believe will offer quests for Miriam to finish?
The various villagers, basically. Personally; I don't actually expect Dominique, Anne, or even Johannes to be quest-givers.
3) What kinds of quests do think the game will have, or would you like the game to have?
What I think it will have: monster-slaying quests, "fetch" quests, demonstration quests (show an NPC an ability you've learned), crafting quests, rescue quests, etc. ^ (Note: I don't think any of these are inherently "boring". So long as they provide interesting rewards as incentives, I'm all for these generic quest types.)
- What I would LIKE it to have: "Equip" quests (prove to NPC that you've found a set of gear by equipping all of it; I can see some potential for silliness here), *Escort quests (take an NPC all the way to a certain location within Gebel's Castle), "Training" quests (raise one of your character's stats to a specific threshold), etc.
4) What kinds of prizes do you expect the quests to offer? Rare or exclusive materials? Gear? Shards?
Yes (to your suggestions). Also coinage. Nice, clinky, shiny, golden, coinage. (*mad giggling*)
5) What do you think about continuous or unlimited quests? This exist in some MMORPGs. Some kind of quest that can be repeated infinitely, and you can receive the same reward again and again.
I honestly don't see that being a thing in Bloodstained.
6) Would you like if the game had some kind of quest that is mandatory to progress? Or maybe some quest that, if you don't do, you don't get the full castle / ending / true final boss?
It wouldn't bother me in the least. After all, Portrait of Ruin did it (the former), and I love that game.
7) Would you like if the second and third character's modes also had quests to complete?
It would certainly give you more to do around the castle as those characters, so I'm all for it.
I'm sure others would also appreciate it if some quests were unique to those characters.
8) Portrait of Ruin had 37 quests. Order of Ecclesia had 36 quests. How many quests do you expect and/or want Bloodstained to have?
It doesn't matter, but I'd probably expect at least 25 or 30.
Ah, done I am. Turning glorious green text modeTM off.
|
|