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Post by DSLevantine on Mar 31, 2018 19:43:37 GMT -6
I hope everyone will get the same game, backer or non backer. For exclusive content, it doesn't have to be "in game" content, they can give the backers exclusive hi res wallpaper etc.
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Post by jboogieg on Mar 31, 2018 20:46:50 GMT -6
I never understood this thinking. Companies offer an incentive to back or preorder a game. If you don't, you don't get the perks. That's the point of an incentive. The only time I feel there's a legitimate gripe is if the perks give those players some ridiculous advantage. I suspect the whip will just be one cool weapon among dozens, and the boss fight seems a novelty. Neither feels essential. Nailed it. Well, it's not *so* cut and dried. 95% of the time there's a preorder bonus, it's made available to be purchased at a later date. So those that went in early got it and those that want to get it later can still do so, just for an added cost.
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Mar 31, 2018 21:08:00 GMT -6
Do you think before you make a promise? What if you can’t deliver on your word? Does it matter? The world isn’t going to come to an end, is it? No, but have you considered... Many people are very casual about making promises. Because of this, promises are made frequently with no real intention of keeping them. “I’ll be there in five minutes” is an example of a throwaway promise that is seldom kept. This attitude can have real consequences. When you break a promise, no matter how small it may seem to you, they can damage your reputation. Think about it, when someone else breaks a promise to you, or gets caught in a lie, doesn’t that make you feel violated or cheated? Getting away with a lie can also be dangerous because it fools liars into believing they’re invincible and that they have little chance of getting caught. Once others learn about the lies, some people may forgive, but they won’t forget. Remember, trust is built through a series of experiences shared with others. When behavior is consistent, faith in the relationship develops. When promises are broken or people are misled, the bonds of trust are breached. Broken promises imply that the offenders either didn’t think before making the promises, or don’t care that they’ve let you down. They’re also implying that their needs are more important than yours. So to me, exclusive doesn't need be exclusive, but be honest about it from the get go. If you didn't think about it and want to change your answer later, then at least realize that people will hold you to a lesser standing than they might have originally. You could also bite the bullet and keep things exclusive and take this lesson to heart for next time, you messed up now but your next project could have content for everyone instead of exclusives. In the end I agree that it is a societal issue that needs to be dealt with promptly.
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Post by ovenkitty on Mar 31, 2018 22:12:01 GMT -6
Although I don't necessarily agree with it, I backed the game fully expecting that this so-called "exclusive content" would be released to everyone else. Whatever, I just want the game. But, (reference that quote I cited), what happens when it comes time to make the sequel? They're going to incentivize with "backer exclusive content" and no one's going to believe it and back it. Either that, or people back it anyway, in which case, exclusive content isn't a good incentive anyway. At the very least, there should be some cosmetic detail on the case that marks it as a backer edition and makes it collectable. And you can always chuck in an extra $5 for IGA's immortal gratitude.
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Post by ovenkitty on Mar 31, 2018 22:16:53 GMT -6
Don't mean to sound negative. The main thing is they listen to the fans and the backers and make a good game!
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Post by arrakur on Apr 1, 2018 4:29:23 GMT -6
I hope the Backer Exclusive Content (Whip and Iga Boss) is Backer Exclusive.^^ It was enough Time for everyone to back the Game and it was promised from IGA !
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roguedragon05
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 1, 2018 8:24:55 GMT -6
One last idea for awhile
A digital book on the mythology of the game, like the backstory of Vepar and other bosses and what exactly she is and a history of the different organizations, and other info that may not be well known like where the different locations are and how they came to be the way they are.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 9:09:51 GMT -6
Just an idea... Wouldn't a digital strategy guide, be nice, too?
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Post by Cale on Apr 1, 2018 11:08:04 GMT -6
Digital? I refuse the lure of the eBooks and Kindle! Hard copy is the only way to go!
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Post by lod7 on Apr 3, 2018 9:55:35 GMT -6
I will say that I was wrong on one point "Ego's vs. Expanding the Appeal of the Game" Isn't the truth or accurate to say... I guess perhaps more so it's that many feel that a promise should be kept regardless... But when the keeping of your word is more important then improving the communities experience or the product, I just think it's too the detriment of both personally. Anyways that's my piece on the subject. This makes the most sense to me. There was another argument on this topic regarding about "if you missed your chance you do not get it" this one only makes sense to me is if the exclusive content you are paying for are physical objects. Why would digital objects remain exclusive? you can copy a digital object an infinite number of times with minimal cost. Charging for these objects with a large enough mark up is perfectly acceptable to me because the backers get them and others would need to spend more to get them. Just make it larger then the difference between the $60 special backer digital edition and the $28 tier. In this case it is $32 dollars. Even if they only get some cosmetics this will still create a certain level of exclusivity, since only someone who is a big enough fan would actually buy it, or they would have to wait until the content goes on sale which could take months or years, to drop down a reasonable price. The point is digital objects should not be treated like physical objects. And that kickstarter isn't a binding contract. As long as the creators deliver the product, in what ever state that may be, they aren't liable from anything else. If the creator as roguedragon05 said can improve the community experience in any way they can, then a promise that can only damage the experience should not be kept. PS on a more poignant point some people just aren't financially able to put down that much money at the time especially when it isn't even a product yet it was based on someones word that it would be made. Some of these fans maybe in post-secondary education, could be a single parent, etc. Maybe in the future they get out of this situation, then at that time they can pay for the extras and they will.
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Post by DSLevantine on Apr 3, 2018 10:15:14 GMT -6
One last idea for awhile A digital book on the mythology of the game, like the backstory of Vepar and other bosses and what exactly she is and a history of the different organizations, and other info that may not be well known like where the different locations are and how they came to be the way they are. This, so much this.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 3, 2018 10:24:19 GMT -6
Broken promises imply that the offenders either didn’t think before making the promises, or don’t care that they’ve let you down. They’re also implying that their needs are more important than yours. So to me, exclusive doesn't need be exclusive, but be honest about it from the get go. If you didn't think about it and want to change your answer later, then at least realize that people will hold you to a lesser standing than they might have originally. You could also bite the bullet and keep things exclusive and take this lesson to heart for next time, you messed up now but your next project could have content for everyone instead of exclusives. In the end I agree that it is a societal issue that needs to be dealt with promptly. A significant part of this whole thing to consider guys is that this promise/idea was made with people that are no longer involved, and the people who are now responsible for "keeping the promise" are different individuals. ArtPlay (perhaps just IGA, obviously not Mana and I'm not sure about Curry) was there, but the publisher (505 Games) and new development groups were not. The IGA boss itself was an idea pushed for that he himself didn't initially agree with, so it certainly wasn't Igarashi's idea. Not sure on the swordwhip, but Sword vs Whip was what the item kind of spawned from. So I would not say that this would be a case of them going back on their word, changing their minds, or symbolic of a dishonest society and all that. Many of the people who sat around a table and talked out these decisions aren't even on the team making the game anymore. Iga obviously conceded/agreed with the ideas of things, certainly, but we know how nice of a guy he is and wanting to do everything right for his fans. Being stuck into a corner of a hard decision like this wasn't chosen by the people who inherited it, or his intention in making his project the best it could be, trusting the counsel of those around him. I'm not "blaming" this whole thing on Inti Creates, mind you, or excusing the others of responsibility. That responsibility is certainly there, and everyone involved is taking it seriously, but regardless of the actions taken, I would not so much be looking at all this as someone changing their mind or lying.
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Post by ReySol on Apr 3, 2018 11:59:14 GMT -6
I am not sure if it is possible technically, but having the extra IGA boss and a weapon is a nice bonus for the backers, which was promised that way. I think that the “standard” edition without these small bonuses, but significant for fans, does not take away from the experience. It is definitely not an essential part of the game, so I wouldn’t think you get any less of an experience. If it cannot be exclusive, my idea is to make a physical exlusive bonus instead: swordwhip keychain and IGA boss figure. I would actually be more interested in the poster by Ayami Kojima, though.
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Post by Busterific on Apr 3, 2018 12:01:45 GMT -6
The point is digital objects should not be treated like physical objects. And that kickstarter isn't a binding contract. As long as the creators deliver the product, in what ever state that may be, they aren't liable from anything else. If the creator as roguedragon05 said can improve the community experience in any way they can, then a promise that can only damage the experience should not be kept. While this is technically true regarding Kickstarter, going off and doing something other than promised just because you can just seems like giving a big middle finger to those who backed and had a specific set of expectations.
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 3, 2018 14:54:07 GMT -6
The point is digital objects should not be treated like physical objects. And that kickstarter isn't a binding contract. The word exclusive are to me, as an digital artist exclusive even its digital or not. This is the area where most people have divided opinions. If I as a photographer sells a picture, or an artist. Example: Mona Lisa. Sure we can make her digital - and give everyone her! That has actually happened. But the original, stays. Digital or not. Exclusive is still exclusive, to me at least. I wouldn't like to hire 80.000 people, for $1 dollar in total to make original Mona Lisas for everyone. It would make her... Not exclusive at all. And the physical items can be sold on eBay, so its not like they will be exclusive forever. Ingame however can be locked. register a code within x days? That is, to me at least, a bit more exclusive. Really a matter on perspective and I understand everyone. I am more hyped and interesting about things I use, than those that will collect dust. So even if I will look at the physical map a few times, it is the swordwhip and hidden boss that I will have more enjoyment out of. I dunno.. Exclusive is keyword. Make it not-exclusive will make it .. Not exclusive.
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Post by jboogieg on Apr 4, 2018 1:07:22 GMT -6
I think a thing to remember is that a decision hasn't been made. And so far they've been pretty up front with us about discussions being had and some reasons why.
It's easy to sit back and think of this from a personal point of view. I, myself, try to look at things from all angles.
I believe when they started this they were forthright and honest. If there's even a discussion being had I have to think there might be a reason behind it.
Also, Enkeria, you have to remember that when something is digital it'll never stay 'locked'. There are *always* ways for people to potentially get things even if they didn't back the game. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling the way you do. I totally get you.
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 4, 2018 8:50:46 GMT -6
jboogieg I am pretty sure Overwatch skin for Widowmaker is locked, a pre-order bonus. Or rather, it was locked after a few weeks after launch. Please correct me if I am wrong. And I think they will change the terms, the ingame weapon and IGA for everyone. It will feel like a kick in the face, but it will be the last time I have faith in such projects (kickstarter / pre-order). So lesson learned if so. I rarely get pre-orders anyways.
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Post by DSLevantine on Apr 4, 2018 19:36:48 GMT -6
I think the in game exclusive content is a very bad idea.
Some backers backed the game because of the exclusive content, they would not have backed the game if the exclusive content is not exclusive. They would rather buy it after the game is released.
For non backers, the non backer version is "inferior". Why would they want to pay the same amount as the backers for the inferior version? they can download the pirated version for free.
That's the reason why I think the exclusive content should be phycial but not in game content so that the pirated version doesn't have any advantage over the normal version.
I am willing to share the backer content with non backers. However, a promise is a promise, I hope the team can find a solution to the problem.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Apr 4, 2018 20:21:55 GMT -6
Many are willing and in the months after release I suspect that many more if not most will be as well, myself included. In fact I'll go so far as to say I'd prefer to share from right away. Both the physical and digital $60 levels will still get "something" exclusive as well as everything promised they just won't be the only ones to get it and while it's not fair that they lose their exclusivity I think it would be better for the game and experience. A kickstarter isn't a preorder it's an investment into a project so we all knew that the game would'nt come out exactly as planned, (WiiU to point out an obvious example) but I do acknowledge that this would be disappointing to some that gave more money for something exclusive. But as a backer it would'nt bother me personally. PS I just noticed in one of my previous posts that some to the Fool's Day Goofball switch a text is still there... not really complaining just wondered if anyone else had that issue too.
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Post by Enkeria on Apr 5, 2018 11:55:22 GMT -6
Thing is, I am usually very kind and want everyone to have the best. But giving all you got to this project (all money you have / time / effort) seems like a big deal to me. And getting that extra back is appreciated. I do not even buy games every year, I do not back either. This was a project I wanted to back, and the exclusive things is amazing.
It's just a shame, once in a life you believe its real, but then it might not be so. Due to a simple little word called "exclusive". But yeah. Last time I write about this subject. I know whats best for the community, and that is no exclusive things at all. Mass-production cost money, but it would be the best alternative. Give everyone everything. < I am not sarcastic or ironic, that as a market is the way to go. Just such a shame. I wanted to feel a bit more special. Dammit.
Feel broken inside now. *waving white flag
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