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Post by lod7 on Mar 29, 2018 16:48:19 GMT -6
I backed this project enough to get signatures but I don't want new comers missing on something just because at the tone can they weren't able to financially.
Just up charge them. If they want the content let them pay. Only thing that should be exclusive is the credits. My name being in the credits alone should be enough.
I don't want to take content, even cosmetic, away from a willing fan. Make it a timed exclusive or what done others have said only available on ng+.
Summary everyone should be able to get everything in this game. I paid with a down payment on Kickstarter but just let late fans pay more for the stuff I'll be getting because I was an earlier donater
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Post by roguedragon05 on Mar 29, 2018 20:30:09 GMT -6
Another thing I'd like to ask/point out is that, Angel seems to be going with the idea of a "special complete" edition that has all content on it later on for the general audience.... Now the disc that are released to the backers (as I understand it) will be the same as the discs that in the standard packaging, meaning that the extra content will have to be in a code/download or something, Why should I, a backer have to get an incomplete copy of the game when I could have waited a few months and gotten a complete copy with all patches and everything instead?
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Post by Enkeria on Mar 30, 2018 5:19:57 GMT -6
- Change exclusive to [blank] and let people know its for everyone.
- Then as a backer, state the only exclusive is the name in the credits for that tier and up. - Piss off people so they never trust another campaign again which says "exclusive". - And make "trusting in a brand" just a lie. - Give people the chance to get the money back for that "exclusive" content since its not anymore.
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Post by exile on Mar 30, 2018 9:19:11 GMT -6
I just don't agree with most of you. It's not some petty childishness that causes me to want to dangle my "exclusive" content above others who can't have it, and it's not that "life sucks." It's that I'm a person who keeps my promises. I don't tell a client that I'm selling them X service and then substitute Y. That would be unethical and also illegal in my profession.
Trying to rationalize that certain words don't mean anything in the video game industry is rather poor logic. That's the same as saying "We can't hold people to standards because they clearly have no standards." As I stated before, I don't ultimately care if other people get some negligible content. I care about companies being forthright with their customers/fans. How would you feel if you paid $10,000 dollars for a painting because it was sold as one of only ten prints, and then the artist said, a month later, "Erm, well...I'd actually like more people to be exposed to my art, because, well, they deserve it, so I'm going to produce another 3,000 prints." Doesn't sit well, does it?
Again, I'm repeating myself, but this whole "I deserve something because I want it and others have it" has simply got to stop. It's social cancer. No, you don't DESERVE anything. If you buy things when they're available, you get them. If you can't, you don't. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please feel free to send me an original print of Hamlet. I'm more than a little miffed that I wasn't able to pick up a copy of my favorite play during the 1600s when it was originally published.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Mar 30, 2018 9:30:42 GMT -6
This argument seems to boil down to "Ego's vs. Expanding the Appeal of the Game"
Punch in the face... kick in the teeth... a promise will be broken and I will have lost faith in Iga and company, my purchase will be devalued... Really? You had the opportunity to help shape the game and participate in the community, thats not being taken away... Your name will forever be in the credits, thats not taken away... Your game will have the slipcase that says your an extra special backer person, that won't be taken away and any physical rewards your entitled too keychains, stickers, books, CD's.... whatever will be given to you. However the "exclusive" content promised to you... will be given to you!
Everything that was promised will be given to you... and yet you'll feel lied too and punched and kicked in the teeth? So much so that you'll want your money back? I'm not saying you don't have the right to feel this way and I do understand where you're coming from, (That WAS the wording used) but I really don't get it as your losing nothing. I backed the project so the project would succeed not so I could stream/twitch an Iga Superboss and Swordwhip run and say look at what I can do and you can't.
And this isn't even Iga's decision to make, It seems that Angel and 505 will be making the decision. I doubt he even decided on there being exclusive content.
I've heard suggestions to change what the exclusive is... sept this solves nothing as it's still an "exclusive" no matter what suggestion is made, I've seen the suggestion to cheapen the value of the exclusive content... so much so that it seems like most WANT the Iga superboss to be a dumb lil afterthought and the swordwhip to be a throw away weapon... (why would anyone think this is a good solution?) The more complex the solutions that we create the greater number of people are potentially slighted. The only compromise I've heard that I've found remotely reasonable and interesting is some sort of indicator in online listings that your a backer attached to your profile maybe like a specially colored shard of stained glass or Iga giving a thumbs up or something. This wouldn't fragment the game at all no special patches needed (least I don't think so) just a special "hey you" for all to see.
I think the choice should really just be, either the exclusive content is a code included with the backer game that enables an exclusive download, or the word "exclusive" is dropped and it's available to everyone. I personally won't stop supporting the game either way but I know without a doubt only one of those choices is better for the community as a whole, I also know that not all of $60+ backers care about "exclusiveness", I certainly don't and of the ones that do how many will still care 6 months after the games out... 1 year after they've either finally or long since put the game on the shelf for the time being? Yet 1 year later there will still be fans buying this game I hope... and 5 years from now when Bloodstained 2 comes out this game again will be up for grabs, it may very well be *remastered* for a new generation will you still feel cheated if that version has the "exclusive" content?
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 30, 2018 10:12:08 GMT -6
exile Your points are valid, but please keep in mind you can express your opinion in a respectful manner.
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Post by m0nkf15h on Mar 30, 2018 10:36:04 GMT -6
I made this thread to hear other peoples voices and i didn't really want to chip in at all since it's about gaining varied perspectives, but i feel i need to express where i'm coming from in relation to roguedragon05 's post, please forgive the formatting as the quote function does not like to work for me: roguedragon05 said: "Punch in the face... kick in the teeth... a promise will be broken and I will have lost faith in Iga and company, my purchase will be devalued... Really? You had the opportunity to help shape the game and participate in the community, thats not being taken away... Your name will forever be in the credits, thats not taken away... Your game will have the slipcase that says your an extra special backer person, that won't be taken away and any physical rewards your entitled too keychains, stickers, books, CD's.... whatever will be given to you. However the "exclusive" content promised to you... will be given to you!"As I only backed at $60 so my name WONT be in the credits, my game WONT have any kind of slipcase, and I DIDNT back for any kind of physical reward, or even a physical copy of the game. I have backed only for digital copy and i have genuine reasons for not wanting anything physical, so in these circumstances my tier reward in it's entirety is potentially (more likely probably) being given to all, so there's no reward other than the fact that the game comes to fruition. It's not that i want to gate content away from people it's just that i backed that particular tier because (a) i wouldnt have to have anything physical and (b) i wanted an edition of the game that was going to vary somehow from a standard retail copy just as a recognition because our investment in the project was important at the time. I'm not suggesting the content should remain exclusive, i get that it's a business decision but what would be a fair solution for someone in my position, who essentially is looking at not really getting any tier reward going forward?
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Post by Busterific on Mar 30, 2018 10:42:39 GMT -6
I don't really care whether the content in question is exclusive to backers or not. On the other hand, it does bother me that one thing was promised in the Kickstarter and that is being changed now, regardless of the reason, and whether the issue is being forced by 505 games or not. I tend to have a very low opinion of anyone to says one thing and then does something else.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Mar 30, 2018 10:52:59 GMT -6
I made this thread to hear other peoples voices and i didn't really want to chip in at all since it's about gaining varied perspectives, but i feel i need to express where i'm coming from in relation to roguedragon05 's post, please forgive the formatting as the quote function does not like to work for me: roguedragon05 said: "Punch in the face... kick in the teeth... a promise will be broken and I will have lost faith in Iga and company, my purchase will be devalued... Really? You had the opportunity to help shape the game and participate in the community, thats not being taken away... Your name will forever be in the credits, thats not taken away... Your game will have the slipcase that says your an extra special backer person, that won't be taken away and any physical rewards your entitled too keychains, stickers, books, CD's.... whatever will be given to you. However the "exclusive" content promised to you... will be given to you!"As I only backed at $60 so my name WONT be in the credits, my game WONT have any kind of slipcase, and I DIDNT back for any kind of physical reward, or even a physical copy of the game. I have backed only for digital copy and i have genuine reasons for not wanting anything physical, so in these circumstances my tier reward in it's entirety is potentially (more likely probably) being given to all, so there's no reward other than the fact that the game comes to fruition. It's not that i want to gate content away from people it's just that i backed that particular tier because (a) i wouldnt have to have anything physical and (b) i wanted an edition of the game that was going to vary somehow from a standard retail copy just as a recognition because our investment in the project was important at the time. I'm not suggesting the content should remain exclusive, i get that it's a business decision but what would be a fair solution for someone in my position, who essentially is looking at not really getting any tier reward going forward? First off monk I know that I did quote you a couple times there but my post was meant to be directed to the "exclusive" side in general I was drawing from several different comments and loped em together alil, maybe that was disingenuous I don't know, if it was I do apologize. Secondly I totally understand where your coming from you definitely deserve a nod... all I can say in defence of my position in relation to yours is that... your still not "losing" anything. I do think that some sort of online notification of this is a backer would be a cool thing, and I'm not going to stop supporting the game if the content is locked off for good or if it's given out at a later date, my only issue with it being given out at a later date is that I personaly don't want the game to be fragmented from the base game/disc/download it's not a deal breaker for me but it would irritate me.
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Post by exile on Mar 30, 2018 10:58:18 GMT -6
exile Your points are valid, but please keep in mind you can express your opinion in a respectful manner. Noted. My apologies, my hyperbole often comes with a bit of a sting. I don't actually believe that the makers of this game are engaged in some kind of deceit or that they're pulling a bait-and-switch or anything of the sort. I actually think they've been EXTREMELY transparent and communicative with the fanbase and I think they're setting a fantastic example that I wish other gaming companies would follow. Those were just examples of general practices I don't support, and the danger of eroding the standards of an agreement. If there was any animosity in my post, it's not directed at this company, this game, or any forum poster, but is reflective of my increasing frustration with a larger societal issue I've laid out in my previous posts. Entitlement, in a word. I don't even think that every member of the new generation (i.e. "millenials") is entitled, as so often gets thrown around. I think that certain individuals, of any age or creed, are under this growing delusion that the rest of the world owes them something. I completely reject that claim and I find it offensive. I'll tone it down a bit, as the reason we're all here is to express love for a passion project that's clearly being handled with the utmost respect. Thanks for keeping it classy, sir.
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Post by XombieMike on Mar 30, 2018 11:01:31 GMT -6
Haha, thanks for understanding. Sorry if I'm reading more tension in this stuff than really exists .
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Post by exile on Mar 30, 2018 11:07:34 GMT -6
No worries, you weren't wrong. There was some hostility, but it was mostly unrelated to this game/forum. One of my favorite shows of all time gifted me the quote, "When a man walks into a room, he brings his whole life with him." Perhaps the same is true about a man walking into a forum.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Mar 30, 2018 12:10:46 GMT -6
I will say that I was wrong on one point
"Ego's vs. Expanding the Appeal of the Game" Isn't the truth or accurate to say... I guess perhaps more so it's that many feel that a promise should be kept regardless... But when the keeping of your word is more important then improving the communities experience or the product, I just think it's too the detriment of both personally. Anyways that's my piece on the subject.
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Post by Busterific on Mar 30, 2018 13:03:59 GMT -6
I find the "its for the greater good" argument to leave a rather sour taste as well even though that will be the overarching reason for why something promised as exclusive will be made public. I think that has something to do with the government around here constantly pushing questionable policies down the peoples throats claiming it's "for the greater good" when said policies may in fact have a negative impact on a surprising number of individuals in the community.
If you're claiming that your not losing anything by others getting the items made public then you're trying to devalue what that exclusivity is worth to some. In effect you're saying we were going to do this, but it should not actually be worth anything to you, so we're not going to do it anymore. I saw a few posts suggesting some alternatives to make up for the loss of exclusivity which is at least admitting that something is being lost by the backers.
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Post by Enkeria on Mar 30, 2018 16:29:27 GMT -6
Make alucart stuff for "everyone" while backers get alucard stuff. See what I did there?
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Post by roguedragon05 on Mar 30, 2018 16:47:55 GMT -6
Having been asked to suggest some constructive idea's of possible compromises beyond a simple online recognition to backers $60 and up....
1. My personal fav idea so far perhaps a seperate mini game that the base game could read data from, this simple mini game could be offered to backers $60 and up, and could be a schumps (Goofball's Bossy Babe perhaps blasting through space or a pixel stage from the game throwing shards of stained glass like throwing stars at the enemy for example) or pokemon trainer (something similer to the pocketstation virtual pet trainer for the chocobo summoning in FF8 maybe) or whatever else the team could throw together at this late stage, and may reward the backer by upgrading their familers or stats in some respect to a limited degree and/or rewarding the backer with in game items like gold that can be obtained normally as well
2. When I purchased HOB for PS4 it came with a theme this theme was alil different from most others that come exclusively with pre orders and such it had a frog like thing with wings that would fly onto and off of the application box you had selected when you switched screens, perhaps something like a crown or a whip or katana doing something similar that would show up on Goofstained when selected would be neat, mayhaps several could be made of various flavors maybe a silly one or a very gothic one an artsy one or an action oriented one... Maybe one that had Miriem and friends chasing off "NOT Alucard, Dracula, and Belmonts out of her game" (I'm just spit balling) I don't know how realistic it would be to expect new professional artwork exclusive to backers to be made now and I don't know if this would impress PC or Vita folks much but maybe it could be offered in addition too whatever else, maybe in game graphics could be used instead of art and be of Mirem walking through a stage... and maybe small details could change based on the season/month.. thats probably too complex though.
3. Perhaps an exclusive thank you video of the people behind the game a brief word from as many as possible I suppose some like Michiru Yamane, Ayami Kojima, Robbie Beltrane would'nt be realistic but perhaps it would still be fun to see more of the not so well known folks, along with any behind the scenes footage that could be put together, maybe even a few non intrusive shots of the dinner date with Iga the 10K backers got so others could see alil of what they missed. Maybe a special video of Iga of where he explains where he hopes Bloodstained and other ideas he might have for the future will go from here.
4. Maybe some sort of digital pin up calendar for the next couple of years with the girls and boys of Bloodstained?
It's alot easier to complain about things then it is to come up with solutions if I think of anything that might be helpful I'll post them as long as it seems releavent exuse the typo's will edit later
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Post by Busterific on Mar 30, 2018 17:21:09 GMT -6
Make alucart stuff for "everyone" while backers get alucard stuff. See what I did there? I like that idea. Backers get the Iga Boss and Iga Sword-Whip while non backers get the same, but with some terrible pun or other word play with Igas name. I wish I knew enough Japanese to actually put together a terrible pun.
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Post by roguedragon05 on Mar 31, 2018 10:04:33 GMT -6
Some more idea's....
A one time use code for crafting/gold/etc bonus for backers
I don't think this would be affordable but mayhaps some Bloodstained decal stickers for controllers and consoles like stained glass growing on your controller maybe... maybe decal stickers of the characters for pc users I know they have some of those already made up.
Perhaps a digital comic much like The Eye of Indra for Uncharted, maybe it could be sold later or included with Bloodstained 2 for others who could'nt enjoy it this time around, could tell the tale of how Dominique became a nun/exorcist or something.
Perhaps a digital scrapbook of rejected idea's accumulated through the years so backers could see how the game might have looked had things gone a different way?
Perhaps the Bloodstained t-shirt on sale at fangamer could be offered to $60 backers as well, since backers at the $250 will get a different shirt.
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Post by crazymonkey on Mar 31, 2018 10:35:52 GMT -6
So since they are thinking about not making different versions for backer versions content and mass market versions. Does that mean the $28 digital copy is getting the backer content also? I'm not criticizing I might add a digital copy to the $60 I already did a while a go. I thought missing content was worth the extra 32 for the backer exclusive content since its a lot of extra stuff. If this was already asked and answered please let me know where to look.
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Post by ovenkitty on Mar 31, 2018 10:56:37 GMT -6
I never understood this thinking. Companies offer an incentive to back or preorder a game. If you don't, you don't get the perks. That's the point of an incentive. The only time I feel there's a legitimate gripe is if the perks give those players some ridiculous advantage. I suspect the whip will just be one cool weapon among dozens, and the boss fight seems a novelty. Neither feels essential. Nailed it.
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