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Post by ghaleon on Apr 16, 2018 21:35:39 GMT -6
I thought I actually requested this as a cheat-code feature when these forums were new. To me it is something every 2.5d game should have as a developer mode cheat or something.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Apr 16, 2018 22:47:30 GMT -6
I thought nothing like this when I saw these lol. At most, "oh they moved the camera around, that's neat". It never occurred to me that would be in the game, because it'd be...extremely hard to control and play if they did. The game is built to play strictly from the 2.5D viewpoint, distance, jumps and hitboxes would be really hard to judge and navigate in alternative camera angles.
A replay or camera mode would be neat, but even that didn't cross my mind with these. It also wasn't a mind blowing thing, since the camera moves from the cutscene we knew from the Vepar fight. But yeah I know games have been doing screen shots like this in a 2.5 case for a while now, like even...I'm pretty sure Mega Man X8, and I can't think of a similar 2.5 platformer earlier than that right now.
Likewise I see screenshots like this for Strider 2014 and it doesn't strike me "OH that is/should be in the game somehow" haha.
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Angel-Corlux
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Post by Angel-Corlux on Apr 17, 2018 18:33:55 GMT -6
Angel-Corlux It might be standard practice across the industry to do this kind of thing these days, but speaking as the kind of person who's been living under a rock since the 90's i'm not used to it. I'm certainly not trying to "crank the dial" to anywhere nor am I attacking the dev team or calling anyone a liar. I'm just old fashioned in my outlook. I get the feeling you're personally offended by my comments if so then i'm sorry, I'm not trying to make your life harder or your job more difficult, I want Bloodstained to be as successful as it can be which is why i raised certain other concerns that you elude to. I don't know what's routine in the industry these days because i don't engage with it, "promotional shots" didnt really exist the last time i picked up a gaming magazine, you're lucky if you got a screengrab from the pre-release alpha of something back in those days (or worse completely faked screenshots made by whatever mag is doing a preview) so when i see something with wildly different camera from what i'm expecting i'm going to be suspicious of it in a way that a lot of other people probably arent because they engage with modern media and are used to seeing this kind of thing even if it's not necessarily going to be an in game feature. Hey Monkfi5h, no not all, I didn't mean to come across as taking anything personally! Believe me , it takes quite a bit more than that to make me take personal offense at something. I was just trying to explain it for everyone, and address your sentiment specifically of screenshots like these being "deception". I can understand if it wasn't your intent to do so, but with that expression you're saying that the Bloodstained team is willfully deceiving and lying to the fans / public.
So all I was trying to point out was that aside from the fact that it's standard to pose / create "beauty shots" for promotional use like this, the game is also still very much WIP (things may/will change from what's shown), and on top of that we're talking about an assumed feature that may or may not exist, not anything that we have promised and then couldn't deliver. And even if it was something we promised and then couldn't deliver, calling it deception means that the team literally sat down and said "ok how can we trick people and lie to them for our benefit?". That's what I was pointing out as an exaggeration, at least in my humble opinion.
The cranking it to 11 thing is just to kind of communicate that if here we're talking about a promo shot that has all the circumstances described above, and we're already at "you lied and tricked us", what happens if, heaven forbid, we would have to cancel support of a specific platform? Or scale back the scope and remove a certain game mode? If a WIP beauty shot is deceiving the players, then something like these examples would see us all arrested and sentenced to a lifetime in the mines! (Jokes aside it has that effect of discounting future criticism I mentioned)
Basically, I was just trying to say that it's ok to give us a little benefit of the doubt, hopefully you all know us by now and you know that while we want to obviously make as much money as we can, we're fans and just like everyone else and aren't out to pull any mega-corp evil publisher shenanigans. The last line of defense for that promise is me! You can always reach out to me for anything at all, and you know my standing promise: "I may not be able to talk about something, but anything I do say, will be the truth."
Oh and it wasn't meant to single you out, this is a message that could be shared with anyone frankly about expectations, understanding and the culture we all live with this game. And I know you're a hardcore fan and you have only the best interests and desires for the game, otherwise you wouldn't be here! So really don't worry about me thinking you're trying to give me a hard time or offend anyone or anything, if anything, I apologize if it sounded like I was offended! Hopefully by now you all know that I want all the feedback, good, bad, up, down, etc etc
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Apr 17, 2018 21:46:22 GMT -6
would be a cool little side feature to have to go into 'snapshot mode', however given this isnt a game where you have an oldschool pause function (one is likely the menu open and the others likely fullscreen map) unless you could remap a button specifically for that (or pc) itd be hell to position, perform an attack, and get the ai to cooperate when you opened the menu/map and went to the snapshot feature to do the positioning but i get it being more of a dev way of setting up a specific shot with precise angle to show off certain features of a game that under normal play you may only see during certain frames, its still the ingame models with ingame animations fighting an ingame enemy in an ingame envirnment, not watch_dogs where they basically ran a very overspecced cutscene and passed it off as inengine footage i am however hoping theres a super hidden whip weapon with a unique attack animation that hearkens back to the dual wielded whip painting way back when
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Post by m0nkf15h on Apr 19, 2018 9:26:39 GMT -6
Hey Monkfi5h, no not all, I didn't mean to come across as taking anything personally! Believe me , it takes quite a bit more than that to make me take personal offense at something. I was just trying to explain it for everyone, and address your sentiment specifically of screenshots like these being "deception". I can understand if it wasn't your intent to do so, but with that expression you're saying that the Bloodstained team is willfully deceiving and lying to the fans / public.
So all I was trying to point out was that aside from the fact that it's standard to pose / create "beauty shots" for promotional use like this, the game is also still very much WIP (things may/will change from what's shown), and on top of that we're talking about an assumed feature that may or may not exist, not anything that we have promised and then couldn't deliver. And even if it was something we promised and then couldn't deliver, calling it deception means that the team literally sat down and said "ok how can we trick people and lie to them for our benefit?". That's what I was pointing out as an exaggeration, at least in my humble opinion. Unless screenshots are posted by you Angel-Corlux then I'm going to take them with a large pinch of salt. They were posted by XombieMike who cited his source as being IGN so at the time of writing anything about any kind of "deception" I had no reason to believe the shots were Official and originated from the Bloodstained Team; as far as I was concerned these are just some images that Mike's found on the internet. I believed that IGN had created the images themselves (i say as much earlier in the thread), primarily because the camera angles in them are so unusual. This practice was very common in the 80's and 90's and that's what i thought was happening here (it lead to so much wasted pocket money). I don't want your hard work to be misrepresented even if it is to publicise the game, turns out that this was some of your hard work, so that's my mistake. It's not a deception if the images are there to showcase some mysterious assumed feature we're not aware of, nor is it a deception to simply show of the engine/models/lighting effects as long as people aren't expecting that to be in-game footage. From Galamoth 's response to me it seems that most people don't expect shots like this to be showing actual gameplay, unfortunately for me however I don't have such a modern outlook. Maybe I'm just getting too old for this. When I post in a thread like this i'm speaking only for myself and giving my personal perspective on things. When i'm raising other concerns i'm doing so not just for myself but also on behalf of other people, to try and help both them and you Angel, so to brush concerns asside off the back of what's simply a misunderstanding on my part doesn't seem very fair to anyone.
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Angel-Corlux
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Post by Angel-Corlux on Apr 19, 2018 16:40:27 GMT -6
I hear you, no worries! And yeah I meant the part about concerns being dismissed as food for thought for what 'can' happen, not that I'm now never going to listen to anything you say, no worries there.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Apr 19, 2018 17:11:24 GMT -6
When I post in a thread like this i'm speaking only for myself and giving my personal perspective on things. When i'm raising other concerns i'm doing so not just for myself but also on behalf of other people, to try and help both them and you Angel, so to brush concerns asside off the back of what's simply a misunderstanding on my part doesn't seem very fair to anyone. Oh yeah, Angel and I and the rest of the team get where you're coming from and appreciate your input, no worries there, my friend But while we'll definitely keep an eye out to see if anyone else felt mislead by what you described (the camera scenes and all that), so far judging by the reactions ITT, most people understand where Angel is coming from too, and the nature of promotional screenshots and all that. So I think for now, the fans in general should be satisfied, but you're right, it is something we should watch carefully
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