Deconstruction of "Metroidvania", rising of "Igavania"

purifyweirdshard I wasn't thinking of the shards. Yeah, I can see people collecting those for sure (even if it is just to see what each shard does--useful or otherwise). Same goes for the crafting materials.

Me personally...I'm not into collecting the fashion wearable stuff. I mean, I want it to look cool and all, but I'm not going to spend hours hunting down a rare drop for the looks.

I have Aria and Dawn in my collection. I did collect all of the souls in Aria, but it wasn't for the sake of collecting stuff. I collected them only because of the Chaos Ring for NG+ (dat Red Minotaur spam). If that item wasn't there, I definitely wouldn't have hunted down all of those souls. And if I hadn't collected all those souls, it would have still been a great IGAvania game. And that is my point. IGAvania games do not require collection quests to be in IGA's genre.

I also did not collect all of the furniture in Harmony of Dissonance. Great side quest for those who love to collect, but far from a requirement to be an IGAvania.

My wife is all about the collection quests. She maxed out the clock in SotN getting every familiar up to max level and getting every drop from every enemy. It's just a personal preference I suppose. As always, I'll leave it to IGA to decide on what goes into the game.

It's interesting to see all of the different aspects of IGA's games that people are so passionate about. Most interesting topic I've read in a while for sure.

Igavania's destory the metroidvania label and tradition by giving you the most overpowered and broken ability from the start...

the >BACKDASH<

purifyweirdshard

I believe the main difference between Metroidvania and Igavania would be the necessary player's skills. IGA said countless times that for him, a game must be fun and enjoyable to beat and that meant making it "light" and "slow-paced". I'm not saying Igavanias are easy, i'm saying they are crafted around the idea where a casual player can beat them. IGA said once, in a interview, that one of the best moments of his life in Symphony of the Night was when he got a message of a married woman that never played games before, had a system just for the hell of it, saw SOTN being sold and bought it because she thought the artwork was beautiful. She tried to play it and after some tries, she was able to beat the game and loved it.
That's one of the main reasons of why he does those games. He said it before, that he wants anyone capable of playing a game, to be able to beat his games with some effort. So, maybe, it's not that IGA games are easier to beat. They are easy to learn.

Pretty much what I would list as well. Also I would like to add -> 9. Has a great soundtrack.
IGAvania: All of what's listed, but made by Koji Igarashi.

Hi gemebisu , welcome to the forums!

A Metroid game is a Metroid game and not a Metroidvania to me, and I was operating under that understanding. The term only came to exist with Symphony and lies with RPG type system games. When I used the line "all more very Metroid to me", that was fairly vague/off and I was keeping things short, sorry about that.. What I mean to say is that the inclusion of those elements is more suited to the speed and pacing of something closer to Metroid than something closer to RPG side-scroller Castlevania. Something such as Samus Returns having the parry mechanic. It fits there, it could fit in a Metroidvania, but I think it would ill suit an Igavania game.

I'm sorry you took this as a negative towards Metroid. I think that mostly covers it, but I'll probably respond to more of your points later, I'm not in a good spot right now.

Also, we have a first post approval process and that's the only reason why your guest posts didn't show up earlier. We do allow guest posting, the mods just have to approve the first ones because of spam problems.

gemebisu I think Angel-Corlux said it best with "ultimately in the realm of subjective opinion". I agree with all of your points. My stance remains unchanged: "They went with "IGAvania" to show it's a Metroidvania by IGA. It's Metroidvania without the Metroid part... so it's Castlevania as defined by the SotN style, which IGA helped create."

Super Metroid did it first. IGA claims that the changes to the Castlevania play style was not influenced by Metroid, but Zelda! Hard to believe, but hey he was part of it. I'm not sure when people started using the word Metroidvania, but it's certainly subjective.

I hope you decide to give Bloodstained a play. Local co-op will be a feature. I hope you and your husband can enjoy it together. Do we know him? Welcome to the forum and we hope you stick around.

Okay, so to add or to emphasize, I'm not retroactively talking about Metroid games and this affecting them in any way. Conversely, and this might help me illustrate, we haven't gone back and call old Castlevania games "Metroidvanias" because they're definitely not. I'm focusing only specifically on what "Metroidvania" has come to mean in the indie space and how separate/apart they have drifted from what we now can look at and say is "Igavania". This is the timeline of progression to me:

Metroid 1, 2, Super, etc: Metroid games
Castlevania 1, 3, 4, Rondo, etc: Castlevania games (later coming to be known as Classicvania)
Castlevania 2: A weird and obtuse game that most people didn't like, we called it "Castlevania" but knew it wasn't really the smae thing as the others. We most certainly did not call it "Metroidvania" by any memory that I have or heard
MSX Vampire Killer: Most people scarcely know this game exists, so the establishment and fame of the genre wasn't really here. I think I showed it to Mike last year

Then moving on to more current times:

Symphony of the Night: A game that seems to mix what we'd come to know as Castlevania with Metroid, hence...okay, Metroidvania!
IGA makes a bunch of games after this: Still Metroidvanias
Metroid Prime, Fusion, etc: Still Metroid games
Castlevania Chronicles, The Adventure ReBirth, DXC: Still just Castlevania (Classicvanias)

Now, jumping ahead a bit and to where things got confusing for me and necessitated this discussion for me:

Guacamelee, Rogue Legacy, Ori, even Indivisible, Strider 2014, Dead Cells, Slain!, Dust, Dark Souls apparently, Valdis Story, and on and on, anything that has a few elements or wants to be associated with this boom, or has at least been associated with the genre by its fans from recognition of said elements: "Metroidvanias" (Imagine the "aliens" guy holding up his hands here)

It's come to mean less and less as time goes on, I'm feeling, to where it's a catch-all malleable trend for indie games. The problem for me is that none of them are all much anything like -vania at all while many of them do have several of the Metroid aspects, some of which you gave and I too pointed out as differences (more linear progression, hard locks vs soft locks, fewer weapons but with emphasized combat).

So, I really didn't want this to be about me me me and what I want. I can see how it comes off that way and how I'm a deluded fan and too deep into what I'm looking for, but I hope you can understand more of what I mean now. This shouldn't be taken as an affront to Metroid games. And I think there may be some perceived undertones of me being bad at games because I like the "easiness" and "relaxing" of Iga games, but rest assured that's not the story. The only games I really devote myself to lately are Souls and competitive fighting games. And Igavania, once it finally exists again.


Haha, so my list above for my input on that. Was anybody really calling Simon's Quest a Metroidvania before 1997?

I love Metroid games! I still think Super Metroid is in the top 10 games of all time. I agree with purifyweirdshard , I think of Metroid games as just that, and not Metroidvania. The same can be said for classic Castlevania games. I see them as more of an action platformer. Both styles have aspects I love, so thats why I love Metroidvanias. As for being an IGAvania, the only thing separating it from Metroidvania, to me, is the creator. No matter the genre, they all have amazing music, fantastic gameplay, and tons of replay value.

Edit: Also, gemebisu, welcome to the Army of the Night! Nice to have you, love your enthusiasm and insight!

gemebisu I'm not sure if you read my response in the intended tone of me agreeing with you and reinforcing your points.

As for those like my good friend purify, I can understand the differences that make IGA's games in particular have a certain feel, but I don't think mixing a certain set of game mechanics together can really carve out yet another niche genre. IGA's games feel different for sure, but if Axiom Verge made 10 games, I'm sure they would have their feel down. If Guacamelee made 10 games, same thing. Creators just have a certain way of staying within what makes them unique while still innovating. By definition I think a genre would encompass all Metroidvanias together, including IGAvanias.