Deconstruction of "Metroidvania", rising of "Igavania"

This is an interesting subject.

So can you define IGAvania apart from a Metroidvania? I think SotN started with blocking by having shields, and I think there were combos like when you can hit again once you land. There are even special moves like in Street Fighter.

I appreciate the advancements of the genre, and I count a game like Quacamelee to be an improvement well within the definition of a Metroidvania. It's not an RPG system, but it's the same exploration that includes back tracking and experimenting with your new abilities (or items).

If you think the RPG system is what defines an IGAvania, consider games like Dust: Elysian Trail have a combo system, but include xp and stat increases that are custom.

Let's call it for what it is. They went with "IGAvania" to show it's a Metroidvania by IGA. It's Metroidvania without the Metroid part... so it's Castlevania as defined by the SotN style, which IGA helped create. I think it's a brilliant way to say this is Castlevania but its not Castlevania.

This is really hard to consider.

First of all, we need to admit that Metroidvania and Igavania are sister genres. One was born thanks to the other, and they share several traits. What could make them different is really debatable, but even so, they may have some differences that could justify the different names, other than just avoiding copyright issues by using "Metroid" name as your definition of a genre. But that's really hard to see. Maybe, Bloodstained will be able to show up actual, easy-to-see differences between what we call Metroidvania and Igavanias.

Yeah, I always hunt Metroidvanias hoping I'll find something closer to SotN style, rather than Metroid, but 95% of the indie games in the genre these days are quite the opposite.

I think when the core elements of the genre were defined, what was extracted from the Metroid and Castlevania games was the focus on exploration, non-linear pathing, and locked off areas, but not so much the RPG elements (instead focusing on generic powerups). If SotN was existent during the time the genre was codified, it would seem that more was taken from the Metroid franchise than from Castlevania -- but only in the sense that the latter had a wider scope to begin with, much of which was discarded in the process. Not sure when the term actually got coined though.

Combat mechanics and the like are more open to experimentation and advancement as time goes on and I wouldn't hold those to ransom when it comes to the development of new games.

So, Igavania it is! Indie devs, please make more Igavanias instead of these garbage rogue-lite metroidvanias.

Eh yeah, I'm just referring to the lesser-known random things on steam (of which I browsed through at least a small handful of rogue-lites), not Real Games like the ones you mentioned

Guys, that's not blocking, and that's not combos. The 3D games have both, definitely, but no pure IGAvania does. You only need to look as far as Lament of Innocence, Leon has a guard button (and even a tighter frame-dependent sweet spot to it) as well as a combo system. So

Alucard holding up a shield: Basically a clash box is held in front of him that will stop a minority of projectiles in the game, all of which you could take out by doing anything else to them, and almost all of which are slow and not damaging. Not a single melee or serious attack can be guarded, and unfortunately we've well-documented how shields are pretty useless even if a significant part of SotN's charm - and I think that was by design. If shields actually DID block things, hahaha...

Shield rod spells/using items together being a combo: that's just, well...using items together and not a combo. Two things at the same time doesn't constitute a combo system. I'm talking about pre-determined attacks in a sequence that have paths and upgrades, which usually necessitates a guard system from the enemies, leading to what IGA has dubbed "hard" enemies:


Lelygax posted this a long time ago. Anyway, this further goes on to show what I mean by the distinction and differences of these games.

As far as can I define an IGAvania apart from a Metroidvania, yes, I think I can and mostly already have:

• A focus on light gameplay and exploration over difficult gameplay concepts
• More non-linear with much fewer hard locks and more soft locks (how something is/isn't passable in strictly one way)
• A plethora of options regarding weapons, abilities, skills and items rather than a few with combo systems and skill paths
• And thus, "soft" enemies as seen above
• A casual light adventure atmosphere rather than a tense on-edge clincher to simulate an enjoyable explorative feeling - emphasized by energetic melodies (often personally requested to be added/interjected into Yamane's existing work by IGA himself)
• A difficulty curve of easier the longer the game is played, such that almost anyone can overcome the challenges with time and somewhat respectable attention to patterns (you guys might remember this interview too)
• Secrets and obscure mechanics/items and effects to a beautifully charming degree of "why", evident of dedication in providing fun options instead of more sterile and strict game balance

Internally, between us and those "in the know" mostly, I'd say we're already there yeah...but to larger bases and in general terms, so many people don't get that there's some important distinction.

Like, it's gotten to where I find myself not wanting to wear this shirt anymore because I feel like it's a misrepresentation of what I really love:
archives.theyetee.com/gamesdonequick/detail.php?itemid=NINA-Metroidvania

"Oh sick you play the new (indie Metroidvania)? I love how it's (combat system and fast/hard)"
"...um, well no sorry"

Lol I'm in too deep help

I wouldn't go so far as to place collecting as one of the most important aspects of an IGAvania.  Collecting all the items/armor/weapons etc. is more of an afterthought to me--and possibly a way to extend the life of the game's replayability.  I definitely wouldn't define the genre based on the ability to collect a bunch of stuff.

I'm not sure if I have said this before somewhere (combo thread maybe?), but with regard to combos.  A combo system can make run-of-the-mill enemy kills entertaining.  I wouldn't want the combo to extend to more than 3 or 4 hits.  Having said that, I'm OK if there is no combo system in place.  So, I wouldn't put a combo system in my IGAvania definition either.

EDIT: I have that same shirt, pws.  I love it!