What do you want if the game is released in staggered style?

Out of all twelve of these, I'd only consider five of them to be standard Igavania features.

~ Extra playable characters, as an unlockable feature, have been a thing since SotN. Plus the fact that most of these games (the only exceptions being Curse of Darkness & Order of Ecclesia) have given more than just one extra character to play as; so having not just a Second, but a Third playable character as well, is nothing out of the norm.

~ Hard Mode itself being unlockable, after beating the game once on Normal, has usually been the case in past Igavanias. "Nightmare" Difficulty is most-likely a harder-than-hard difficulty this time around, but a couple past Igavanias (Portrait of Ruin & Order of Ecclesia) have seen similar things; such as the addition of a Level Cap adjustment feature exclusive to Hard difficulty. What remains to be seen is whether there will be any difficulty settings other than "Normal" that will be made available by default.

~ IGA himself has said in past updates & "#AskIGA" videos that Cheat Codes will be in the game. While I don't think "cheats" have necessarily been a thing in past Igavanias, there have been Codes that you could enter as a character's "name" in certain games to activate a bonus feature in that playthrough. Examples of such exist in Igavanias as early as SotN (enter X-X!V"Q to activate "Luck Mode"), and can definitely be found in the two 3D titles as well.

~ Boss Rush Mode has most definitely been a mainstay. While SotN didn't have such a mode, all subsequent Igavanias had this feature.


I would have voted in "Speed Run Mode" as well, as it probably would be relatively easy to implement... but it wasn't a standard feature in past games (unless you count the fact that Boss Rush Mode is usually timed, and there's "Race Mode" in Order of Ecclesia; which involved a sort-of time attack).

The usual elements present in an IGAvania: a hard/nightmare mode, boss rush and bonus characters. Cheat codes will probably be there from the get go but as far as I'm concerned everything else is novelty/extra, so I wouldn't mind not receiving those modes right away.

This is a very interesting opinion. IGA said in a interview, that they had to breainstorm new stuff for stretch goals in order to keep the money coming, since people would stop donating after a while, if the donations wouldn't add a thing to the game. So, to do what you said, they would need to have stretch goals anyways.
The number i said of stretch goals (28) considers everything, from the artbook to each 8-bit music and such (everything couting as 1 each stretch). Since you consider what they created as stretch goals to be "unneeded features", but even so, you said they could use the money they got to make the main game better, with what you would fill in the other 25 stretch goal slots that was necessary to bring the money in? Inverted Castle? Progressively bigger number of rooms? 
It would be curious to know how you would fill in stretch goals enough to finish the campaign with 5.5 million.

Well, it has been stated by IGA (maybe someone who recalls the exact article/video can pull it), that he was not intending to let the addition/added work of stretch goals affect the quality and size of the main Bloodstained experience, which was planned and set to be as big and manageable as it could be in their scope at that time.

Basically, the size and quality of Ritual of the Night was set and planned to a value of x after a certain point of funding. Biggest castle ever, lots of new features, new shard system that seems bigger than even Sorrow soul systems, etc. Huge thing.
After that point of funding was hit, okay, Bloodstained is already unprecedentedly massive, time to divert to other things: these stretch goal modes.

The value of "x" has not been taken away, but not necessarily added to, either, with these stretch goal modes coming about. They are a "y", separate and supplemental to something already planned to be as perfect and complete as feasible. Because of that pursuit of completion and perfectionism, adding of these modes later with this staggered model may be all the more necessary. It gives him room for the main game to be the best it can be, and also a chance for these modes to be more special.

In short, I know it's only his words and intentions are just that, but I would say that the plan of Bloodstained should not be hindered by the addition and presence of these modes. I'll tag Angel-Corlux here (lol yw Angel), in case I'm off about this or he would want to give more insight...and also actually so he knows this is the impression I/we have on development. The main game obviously needs care and attention, and hopefully without rushing.

freddythemonkey

I totally understand you (and CastleDan ) complains about stuff from stretch goals that does not fit completely in a Igavania game OR that could be considered as "unecessary" and i respect that. But again, i ask: How do you raise 5.5 million dollars to make a 2.5d side-scrolling single-player game nowadays?
The only way to do that was using IGA's own name and fame and adding interesting stuff to make people donate more money. I'm sure they would break maybe 2 million with just "let's make the main game better" stretch goals, but it would not go beyond that. And this is business. More money coming in, you have a safer business, higher salaries, more people working in and more profit for yourself.

That's how a sucessful business model for Kickstarter works. You create a project, and if people like it, you make more money coming in with interesting stuff you promise with a reasonable cost. You can't simply "not want" to raise more money. And you WILL NOT raise more money without stratch goals that aren't interesting enough. If i'm not mistaken, IGA said in a interview that the money they asked for most modes was around 50% higher than what would actually cost to make it. You use that extra money to cover unexpected costs and inflation over the years of work (by the way, IGA said they used it all, including the extra).

Might no 9 failed not because it promised more than what it could handle. It failed because the dev team wasn't able to deliver what it promised, and that is a different thing. Lack of knowledge, manpower and bad management of resources, coupled with a terrible communication with it's backers and overall community. Absolutely nothing like that is remotely close to what Bloodstained's dev team is doing, at least as far as we could see.

Another thing i must point out, and i said this more than once, is that Bloodstained is a spiritual sucessor, not a Castlevania. That means that the game MUST BE SOMETHING ELSE and not just a carbon copy of the famed series. Adding those unique stretch goals with stuff that was never seen before in a Igavania game was a great way to make it more unique and less "Castlevania without it's name".


About stretch goals that are just there to be cash cows, such as Boss Rush or the unfamous "New Boss" (that is completely irrelevant since we don't know how many bosses the game will have, promising an adittional boss is completely useless) i totally agree with you. But you know what they would put in place of those things that could be in the game anyways? NEW modes or interesting stuff that some people would consider to  be time and resources "wasted" in unnecessary side stuff, just like you said.

In the end, it seems to be a situation without a way out. You need money. People only donate money if stretch goals are interesting, meaty stuff in content. That makes the game takes longer to complete and may take some of the main core's focus. It's a risk. I can't see another way to raise 5.5 million on a 2.5d single-player sidescroller to be released nowadays without doing that.

So, yes, i defend almost all stretch goals that Bloodstained was able to get funded, because that's what made it such a sucesful campaign, to the point people went on guessing what the next stretch goal would be, trying to figure it out by looking at darkened bottom of pictures they released of stretch goals.

Hey now I'm not saying that most of the money is being wasted or that IGA and the team butchered the game to accommodate stretch goals, not at all

Pure Miriam (I'll report those parts of your comment I'll respond to in green)

That's how a sucessful business model for Kickstarter works. You create a project, and if people like it, you make more money coming in with interesting stuff you promise with a reasonable cost. You can't simply "not want" to raise more money. And you WILL NOT raise more money without stratch goals that aren't interesting enough.

That's absolutely true, we're speaking about a company and not charity after all, so yeah I agree that this is business and that it's the way thing go. That's why I never said or thought something as unreasonable as "Man this game has bonus modes as stretch goals, I'll take my money back, this is unacceptable"

Might no 9 failed not because it promised more than what it could handle. It failed because the dev team wasn't able to deliver what it promised, and that is a different thing. Lack of knowledge, manpower and bad management of resources, coupled with a terrible communication with it's backers and overall community. Absolutely nothing like that is remotely close to what Bloodstained's dev team is doing, at least as far as we could see.

I'm not saying that Bloodstained will be a flop like MN9, absolutely not. I'm one of the most adamant defenders against those online who mock the project comparing it to MN9. I was just saying the first example of a game that, while raising a lot of money ultimately failed for a variety of reason on which I see we agree on (bad management of resources being the one I was focusing about, though obviously not the only one).

Another thing i must point out, and i said this more than once, is that Bloodstained is a spiritual sucessor, not a Castlevania. That means that the game MUST BE SOMETHING ELSE and not just a carbon copy of the famed series. Adding those unique stretch goals with stuff that was never seen before in a Igavania game was a great way to make it more unique and less "Castlevania without it's name".

On this I kinda disagree because even if this obviously isn't a Castlevania, the core gameplay and type of experience is pretty much identical. That's what IGA does best and what he wanted to do, and I'm not complaining about it. In fact, that's precisely what I and many others want. The biggest differences will be the crafting system and the more complex drop system, though we have yet to see those features. Also, when differentiating a game from other similar titles you usually do so by changing the gameplay and the core formula (those things I mentioned), not by adding something that is external to the main campaign/experience. If Bloodborne had a bonus mode centered around go kart racing, it would not be that one that dictates it's different from Dark Souls. It's the tweaks to the main formula (guns, no shields, faster pace) that make Bloodborne different from Dark Souls.

But you know what they would put in place of those things that could be in the game anyways? NEW modes or interesting stuff that some people would consider to be time and resources "wasted" in unnecessary side stuff, just like you said.

Not necessarily. I'd like expansions to the main campaign. I'd like more areas with unique mechanics. More elaborate bosses, more fleshed out campaigns for the other playable characters, maybe with unique areas, a more elaborate "Nightmare mode"... I prefer things like that.

Let me absolutely clear: I am not bashing the game in any way, shape or form or saying that it will be "less good" because it has bonus modes. Sometimes when criticizing something it gives this kind of vibe but I am really happy with everything I've seen about Bloodstained, and I have great confidence in the team and in the project. That said, if in this forum the occasion arises, I'll speak about some aspects of the game/modes/etc. I'm not particularly fond of. That doesn't diminish my enthusiasm in the slightest.

Yeah I didn't get that impression from what you said Freddy, I myself was mostly replying to Dan's sentiment specifically.

If it had to be staggered then I can wait for the strictly multiplayer features as those are the ones I won't likely use

I only chose 4 of the Poll Options but really i think only 2 of the ones i chose are essential on release day, the other 2 i just hope for out of the box; Nightmare Mode and Speedrun Mode i feel need to be included in the game from day 1 because many players will blaze through (or at least try to) the Main game content and will be hungry for additional challenge to tide them over if the rest of the content is staggered - in edition footage of speedruns etc will sell copies so it would be advantageous to have these features initially. The less important options that i hope will be included on launch are the Asynchronous Multiplayer - because i'm nosey and like to see where others have died and also Cheat Codes because i yearn for a simpler time when things like this were always included as-standard.