Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 11, 2017 2:38:38 GMT -6
How big this thing will be anyways? We are "not that far" away from Bloodstained locking up and ready for release (at least, we hope so). Considering that, it is starting to be the time for speculations. Reading comments around the internet about the game, IGA's past interviews, some pages and other things, i came up with some interesting speculations about Bloodstained's game size and i wanted to know the community's opinion about it. Here goes: 1600+ROOMS
The only number we have, so far, about Bloodstained's size is a promised number of rooms, that was said to be "more than 1600" (or 1600+, for short). If that ends up being the case, the game will be lower than Symphony of the Night ( 1890) and, technically, it will not met the Stratch Goal "IGA's Biggest castle". The dev team said once that Bloodstained was being planned to be " 1.5 bigger than Symphony of the Night". That doesn't add up to the promised Bloodstained's castle size of 1600+ rooms, since that is lower than Symphony of the Night's size (if you count two castles) unless... BLOODSTAINED CAN HAVE TWO CASTLES
If that is the case and if the promised 1600+ rooms considers only one castle, then the game would be MUCH bigger than Symphony of the Night, reaching the whooping number of 3200+ rooms, something i really don't believe it will be the case. IGA said that when the team calculated 1600+ rooms for the game, he considered that it was "a bit too much" but wanted to do it. That was before the dev team changed and increased to make better use of Procedural Generation.Procedural Generation is not only a tool to make games with random elements, but also a method of randomly creating scenarios using pre-made assets to make them look more interesting and varied and also to easily create huge scenarios much quicker. (You create the scenario using procedural generation, fix what it has to be fixed and them lock it). Using procedural generation, the game can be created much more easily and that also means a bigger game overall. If Bloodstained doesn't end up having two castles, there is other thing that can be done to make it bigger, and that is... PROMISED ROOM COUNT DOESN'T CONSIDER OUTSIDE / OTHER AREAS
If the room count of 1600+ rooms doesn't consider areas such as The Village, Galleon Minerva and anything that is not strickly inside Gebel's Castle that may exist and we don't know yet, and only considers the Castle itself, then the game can easily reach beyong 1890 rooms of Symphony of the night and reach the promise of being 1.5 bigger than Symphony of the Night as a game. If that is also not true, then the last speculation that can be done is... BLOODSTAINED GAMEPLAY HAS ELEMENTS THAT MAKE IT LONGER / BIGGER
If the game has elements on gameplay that make it longer, bigger or more time-consuming (such as several completionists elements, tons of backtracking and such) the game may not be bigger "physically speaking" but may take longer to finish and ends up being bigger due to that. CLOSING COMMENTS
Symphony of the Night, according to how long to beat website, can be finished in 9 hours (main story), 12 hours (main + extras) and 17 hours (completionists).
If "Bloodstained being 1.5 bigger than Symphony of the Night" promise ends up true, Bloodstained could end up with something like: 13 hours (main story), 18 hours (main + extras) and 25 hours (completionists).
IGA said in the past that when they were still aiming for the 500.000 on Kickstarter, the game was planned to have around 10 hours of normal gameplay (already a bit bigger than Symphony of the Night's normal gameplay) but as Kickstarter started to get more and more money, the planned for the game to be around 1.5 bigger than Symphony of the Night. As said above, that doesn't add up, due to a simple math: Bloodstained promised size: 1600+ rooms.Symphony of the Night's size: 1890 rooms.Bloodstained havnig 1600+ rooms and being 1.5 bigger than Symphony of the Night doesn't make any sense, unless one of the speculations above ends up being true or something else that i wasn't able to think about. What do you think of all that? That's all folks!
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Clear
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Post by Clear on Dec 11, 2017 4:10:08 GMT -6
Bloodstained may very likely have 1600 rooms as promised, and I can see this realized. But "1600+" means "more than 1600", which makes the following logical argument false: 'Greater than 1600' < '1890'Substitute 'Greater than 1600' with 'Greater than 1890' (which is a valid substitution to make), and it mathematically proves my point. I mean, we're guaranteed at least 1600 rooms right off the bat
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Elfina Ashfield
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Post by Elfina Ashfield on Dec 11, 2017 4:43:30 GMT -6
IIRC there is a post regarding these numbers when the forum is still new.
Anyway, '1890' is the number of rooms in SoTN if the revert castle counts. Although technically they are different rooms, but it's the same map and rooms share the same layout, so I doubt that. If you cut 1890 in half which is 945, 1600 > 1.5 * 945, no conflict at all. That's my guess.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 11, 2017 7:54:34 GMT -6
I do not know how you guys measure the time to complete main story etc. It took me around 50h to finish SotN the first run. It was without help, and checking all the secret areas. Backtracking a lot etc.
Does these numbers mean when you know where to go?
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 11, 2017 9:38:50 GMT -6
Enkeria yeah as far as I know, it only accounts for playing the content straight through without getting stuck at all, only light grinding, basically a constant push. The average person wouldn't put 50 hours into SotN, but then again that "17" hours for completionist is completely wrong haha. That must be a very light definition of completionist, even if you have a guide to everything. You might be able to do 200.6 and do/see/get everything in that timeframe, but it'd take basically a practiced and guided player to do it I think. Pure Miriam, did you see this brought up recently in the Youtube comments on the last video? I was thinking that might be what inspired you to visit this topic again. As for what I expect, I'm thinking 1.6k for the main castle, then some amount extra for the secret/hidden/twist realm which would in some way probably re-use things. In doing so, it would push us close to and over the total room count period of the other games, while retaining the most unique rooms.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 11, 2017 12:54:08 GMT -6
EnkeriaThat measurement is on a website, but even dev team normally does something like that, but, as always, the time is based on testers playing the game. it's completely different for each one. I normally take much more time to finish a game that i like, because i like to pay attention to details and have a good taste of the game before finishing it. I heard people with 100+ hours of gameplay on Symphony of the Night, simply because they like the game so much that they want to spend time playing it, even if you have little to nothing to do with it. That "main story" time is based on a straightfoward experience by a experienced (but not pro) player. Basically, you take the game, you already know how to play, and you play it from the beginning to the end without going away from the main plot not even once. purifyweirdshard I don't believe on that time for completionists either. That is probably some "pro" player. Overall folks, take those hours with a grain of salt, it varies GREATLY depending on your playstyle. About the discussion, my thread was going to talk about speculations i have for the game, a myriad of topics i have in my head, gameplay-wise and plot-wise. But when i started to type that part, about the game's size and how many hours it could take to finish it, i noticed that this topic was too big to be confined in a thread with other subjects and decided to make it a topic of it's own. My other speculations (both plot and gameplay-wise) thus, was locked inside my head to be some other time on some other thread one day.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 11, 2017 13:43:14 GMT -6
I have no idea about the rooms. But yes. IGA can make it 1 room more than SotN, and just flip it like he did in SotN and it will be his biggest..? Or was Aria bigger when counting SotN first castle?
Anyway.. If there is a random generated area, which change the whole room. That could be added to the calculation. Let say 1 room (one wide frame) can have 10 different outcomes with forground/background/monsters/items. It is possible it will add and fool the actual number of rooms. If it's in the details.
A 2nd castle is a detail, since its the same room, just upside down, the enemies and colors are changed along with music. Can we still say its a new room? Both yes and no. Its tricky!
So I guess, just adding a few more rooms, and flip it, mirror it or make it upside down again, it really would make the game bigger than SotN.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on Dec 11, 2017 14:09:25 GMT -6
I think that a game's size has not much inherent value. A game with a smaller area can be lots more fun than one that spreads the same amount of original content over longer stretches of repeated rooms and so on. Basically this means, I don't really care if we end up getting a castle with a bigger room count or anything. I think the fun that I'll get out of this game is not quantifiable by a number of rooms, square meters or something similar. I hope they don't make it a grindfest just for the sake of size.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 11, 2017 15:58:37 GMT -6
YänThere was a few big boss rooms that had small enemies in it. After those were gone, those rooms stood empty. I remember killing the Mummy one in SotN inverted castle. I was almost a bit annoyed about it. Not to a medium to high degree, but it just felt.. I dunno. So much space to waste! So I would wonder if boss rooms will be filled with other things once you have defeated a boss..
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 11, 2017 16:15:25 GMT -6
Well, Akmodan was just disappointing in every way, lol. Poor guy. His death animation lasts longer than your fight with him.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 11, 2017 16:45:26 GMT -6
I believe they had more planned for him in-game, but had to keep it under wraps.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 11, 2017 17:41:51 GMT -6
purifyweirdshardHaha, I agree. That dust in the wind works though. Worth the fight.... Even for a second or two with Crissaegrim.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Dec 12, 2017 2:22:04 GMT -6
Just a general information about room size for most other Igavanias, this is already in some threads of mine. Have in mind that each block from the map of a game is considered "one room". Symphony of the Night; 1890 (two castles). Circle of the Moon: 981 (including secret battle arena). Harmony of Dissonance: 1348 (two castles). Aria of Sorrow: 928. (Including Chaotic Realm). Dawn of Sorrow: 1023. Portrait of Ruin: 1845. (Including all portraits). Order of Ecclesia: 1335 (including all areas outside the Castle). Yän i agree to you in a extent, but since the game has "Iga's biggest castle" as a stretch goal, it would be good to know that they will really deliver that promise. I consider that stretch goal as "Iga's biggest game" overall, so, i accept if the whole thing counts both Gebel's castle and areas outise of it. So, in MY view, if Bloodstained doesn't have 1891 rooms or more (considering the game's overall length) that stretch goal wasn't fullfilled, since Symphony of the Night, with it's 1890 rooms, is IGA's biggest game.
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