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Post by Aria Mikado on Oct 11, 2017 9:59:49 GMT -6
I personally liked the way that extra playables were handled in prior games, where the standard was to beat the game to unlock the ability to play as them. That said, though, I think that more could be done to make playing as them a little more worthwhile. The Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow, which was in many ways a throwback to Castlevania III, was pretty awesome as a whole, and it almost felt like an entirely separate approach to the same game in some respects. It felt pretty satisfying to traverse the castle and deal with its dangers with the trio and their given abilities...even if Alucard made it a bit too easy at times.
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Post by Redogan on Oct 11, 2017 11:17:29 GMT -6
Mhm. Lets hope someone buy the Castlevania IP and continue it. Could ArtPlay buy the Castlevania IP? Then IGA could make the 1999 game.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Oct 11, 2017 12:01:40 GMT -6
...even if Alucard made it a bit too easy at times. lol it's funny to see someone say that, since a little while ago someone gave the argument that Alucard wasn't worth using.
Quite a mix of opinions out there, especially regarding story and its importance. I don't think I've seen it said anywhere else that a profound strength of Harmony of Dissonance was that it didn't have any narrative or direction and made it greater among Castlevania games. That's definitely a different way of seeing things...
I think some folks isolate "gameplay" as an ideal and focus on it as a black/white concept where only the "playing" of the game matters. One genre you could heartily apply this to of course would be fighting games, but one of the main selling points and triumphs of Mortal Kombat and Injustice 2 were their story modes. Attachment to a game world and its characters are real things, and the medium can be used to tell worthwhile stories. It's neither true that "all game stories are trash", nor that "all stories adapted from games are trash". Something being a particular form of media does not exclude it from being meaningful. Thanks, Adi Shankar!
So anyway, I like Dominique and I want her to be playable. I've never had much attachment to Gebel...until a bit more now, with Mana's new art haha, and I agree with Enkeria's thoughts on the arrangement of the characters on that. Gebel and Zangetsu are clearly exerting some sort of power, but we do know that Gebel is currently the main "villain" and will most likely engage in combat at least against us.
The way I had kind of pictured it going is: Miriam: Hybrid all around main character, melee and caster, main story Zangetsu: Melee focused more tanky character with special moves, Getsu Fuuma style upgrades and subweapons - side story of vengeance Dominique: Magic focused Belnades style character with church weapons/powers, chargeable spells - side story of working behind the scenes
If it's Gebel instead of Dominique, I imagine he would take on the caster role. I do think though that if he's one of them, it would most likely be lighter on story or none in that case since it wouldn't make much sense for him to progress through the game purposely taking down the castle and demons he had just summoned. Maybe just playable in extra modes.
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Post by Aria Mikado on Oct 11, 2017 12:21:13 GMT -6
Well, I think that honestly, in the case of a Metroidvania/IGAvania style game, story is just as important an element as anything else. As you said, the player-made attachment to things such as character and world lore can help in the general immersion of things so very much.
It's just like when you think about what music can and will usually add to a game's overall presentation. Music helps to create atmosphere, tension in moments, and even adds to the personality of certain characters during integrally important scenes that lend themselves to said character's backstory. If it's not there, it MAY be harder to actually pull in the player in those respects, I think.
And yeah, Alucard was fun, but he was silly in Julius Mode. XD; I mean...short hop sword slashes were a thing, if you had the execution. =p Damage wasn't as high as Julius' with single strikes or anything, but it added up FAST. :3
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Post by exile on Oct 11, 2017 14:45:12 GMT -6
I agree with the sentiments some have expressed already. I think a proper leveling up/gearing system would be awesome. I don't think it's at all necessary to give them extra stories or bosses, but hey, if that can somehow be managed in this already overly-ambitious title without causing the dev team to jump off a cliff, then by all means, go for it!
Oh, and I know it's been said, but I'd like to reiterate how utterly badass Zangetsu looks. I hope he's playable.
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Post by Enkeria on Oct 12, 2017 4:56:28 GMT -6
Mhm. Lets hope someone buy the Castlevania IP and continue it. Could ArtPlay buy the Castlevania IP? Then IGA could make the 1999 game. With a big bag of cash, sure. But I doubt they will do it. It would make more sense Konami hired ArtPlay, instead of ArtPlay getting the Castlevania IP.
Also, if Konami have a good deal and want to give Koji Igarashi the IP, for ever unknown reason, and he would accept. I believe he would focus on remaking Castlevania 1 - 3 first actually. If this would be something fans would dislike, then just a reboot. This time done right with the timelines, splitting the Castlevania into, (if so) at least 3 different versions / timelines all in all.
I see a 0,2% chance he will go back to it however as someone owning the IP. I think he wants to move forward, even if loveletters like Bloodstained is a passion of his from the Castlevania-days.
But.. Who knows.
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Post by Lestaroth on Oct 14, 2017 18:34:44 GMT -6
Well Enk (@enkeriagin), I am sure that Master Iga is fully focused on the 'stained project, trying to see what he could do best to please us players. If you remember well, he said that if he would encounter a game that is not pleasing to him, it probably wouldn't be for the others... it is because he puts himself in our shoes (while knowing he cannot replicate this feeling fully) and it is not something that producers do often. He also has to mix his own vision of the game and consider what would please us, some sort of good compromise. I then hope he takes the best of our suggestions, the realistic and easier to implement ones. As for the past games, yes, I still want to say they were just extras. There is still so much possible to do. I hope we get the best of it, as in really fleshed out characters... (I recently heard that Miriam was the most human-like character he ever created. This brings lots of hope for the character personality-wise!) You went to talk about the art that Mana did. Renewed praises aside, I shall try to decrypt it a little. Yes, the placement and expression of each character matters. Miriam is in the front, she is the lead character and she got a nice smile. Sadly I won't talk about her further, since she is not the core of this topic. Zangetsu is placed in an clear space, away from the others, showing his solitude and focused vengeance. His glowing ofuda (talisman) he is preparing... I want to call him 'stained's Gambit now. XD Anne and Dominique are placed at the same plane as Zangetsu's. The warm smiles show that they are allies. Anne is placed at the front and one could joke that she is playable (hey, who knows, though), but I believe that since she is smaller, she is more at the front. Johannes is behind them, not with a warm smile (well, too much of something isn't good anyway) but he is instead sideways (red flag), with a strangely plotting expression (red flag 2), while holding some journal/small diary (red flag 3)... what's more, the next one, the one behind him (with whom I would even dare say he got a family link) is... ...Alfred, an old man that literally shows coldness, if not calm ruthlessness. The expression he has in this picture is typical of an enemy with an unfathomable level of power. Does it inspire the words "final boss" or "penultimate boss" to you? It does to me. As for the final one, Gebel, he has a lot of available space, just enough to strike an epic pose of "come at me if you dare", showing how ready he is (and Zangetsu won't relent on trying to stop him). Will he be the final boss? I doubt it. It would be too simple and uninspired. And then there is a strange bat in the corner. The Mysterious Man? Could it be... Alucard? No, it's not possible. XD
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Post by Enkeria on Oct 14, 2017 18:48:24 GMT -6
Johannes is behind them, not with a warm smile (well, too much of something isn't good anyway) but he is instead sideways (red flag), with a strangely plotting expression (red flag 2), In between two different paths in his life..
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 15, 2017 2:19:40 GMT -6
I want to comment some topics that was addressed at this thread.
ABOUT HOW IGA CREATES THINGS
We all know that, as better as some plots of Igavania games can be, the whole Castlevania series is not known for having a intricate, overcomplicated or awesome plots. Sure, some games had really interesting plots, but i remember IGA saying once that the first thing he thinks when creating a new game, is the gameplay. Back in the day, he gave a interview saying that all Castlevania games was created this way. The first thing he comes up with is the gameplay, how the magic / power system will work and things like that. And then he creates the plot, wrapping up the gameplay elements. The only Castlevania game during his time that wasn't created that way, was Lament of Innocence. It was the only one he designed the plot beforehand, because he already wanted to tell the origins of the Belmont Family.
ABOUT MANA'S ART
Angel from 505 games already said in a podcast that Mana is one of the few people that knows most of the game and it's plot and he said that her artwork reflects her actual knowledge of the game's plot. For those who like to analyze artwork and what it represents...here's a good info for you.
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Post by XombieMike on Oct 15, 2017 9:59:56 GMT -6
I agree about plot being 2nd to gameplay in previous IGA games, however in Bloodstained I have good reason to believe that the plot will be much more robust. We have an all star voice acting cast involved, and I think IGA's biggest contribution to the game will be the writing.
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Post by Lestaroth on Oct 16, 2017 6:17:25 GMT -6
I agree about plot being 2nd to gameplay in previous IGA games, however in Bloodstained I have good reason to believe that the plot will be much more robust. We have an all star voice acting cast involved, and I think IGA's biggest contribution to the game will be the writing. We can't expect in the wildest dreams what can happen, indeed. I also don't believe that the non-playable characters besides the villains, will only get a few spoken lines, that would be disappointing. Let's hope for the best. Only the future will tell. I want to know but I don't want to be spoiled, so I eagerly am waiting for the day the final product takes form.
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Post by Wally on Nov 8, 2017 5:31:38 GMT -6
I would love for the extra characters to be fully fleshed out.
1.) The two best options on how to handle the character's stats are either a leveling system or an increase in stats when beating a boss like in Julius mode. The former lets you make yourself as strong as you need to while the latter leads to less grinding and a more streamlined challenge.
2.) Having a menu is a must have. In the past, the extra characters were artificially more difficult and cumbersome because you couldn't do these things:
take advantage of elemental strengths/weaknesses by equipping different things buy and use potions to heal yourself with/have access to a shop having access to the bestiary to look up strengths/weaknesses see how much experience you need before leveling up again having a character portrait (I love portraits and have been met with disappointment from their non-existent portraits)
All of these things involve a menu. While these extra characters may not have complete access to the menu's features like Miriam, it is still important to have.
3.) There should also be items to find as these extra characters so that there is an actual reason to explore. These things could simply be another version of their default weapon that makes their attack a different element. They could also not start off with every ability and need to beat bosses for that to also encourage exploration.
4.) Some plot would be nice although I'd say that's the lowest priority.
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 8, 2017 7:07:55 GMT -6
I would love for the extra characters to be fully fleshed out. 1.) The two best options on how to handle the character's stats are either a leveling system or an increase in stats when beating a boss like in Julius mode. The former lets you make yourself as strong as you need to while the latter leads to less grinding and a more streamlined challenge. 2.) Having a menu is a must have. In the past, the extra characters were artificially more difficult and cumbersome because you couldn't do these things: take advantage of elemental strengths/weaknesses by equipping different things buy and use potions to heal yourself with/have access to a shop having access to the bestiary to look up strengths/weaknesses see how much experience you need before leveling up again having a character portrait (I love portraits and have been met with disappointment from their non-existent portraits) All of these things involve a menu. While these extra characters may not have complete access to the menu's features like Miriam, it is still important to have. 3.) There should also be items to find as these extra characters so that there is an actual reason to explore. These things could simply be another version of their default weapon that makes their attack a different element. They could also not start off with every ability and need to beat bosses for that to also encourage exploration. 4.) Some plot would be nice although I'd say that's the lowest priority. ^Yeah, this whole reply is pretty much what I think about this as well. Even if the other playable characters don't level up in the same RPG-style fashion that Miriam does, I'd still like for them to have full access to a menu wherein they can manage equipment & abilities, and for them to have equal involvement in the story even when playing as them.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 8, 2017 11:00:24 GMT -6
I want infinite cake and eating it without getting fat, myself
I don't know which direction they'll go, but I mostly just hope that the other characters have a more classical style of gameplay. Generally a neat (player depending) side effect of toning down the RPG mechanics and having fixed abilities is adapting to the game with what you have as opposed to playing/finding enough that the game adapts to you. It's somewhat of a nice contrast, and works great if they make sure characters can do everything well enough in their own ways (making it through the Echo of Bat area with Richter is kinda rough guys).
That said, all 3 of them could be customization and level heavy in the main game while all 3 are more what I'm describing in Classic Mode. Don't really know...if nothing else, I'll just play Brave Earth: Prologue for my classicvania fix around then hopefully ;p
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Post by Busterific on Nov 8, 2017 12:08:33 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard, why is the though of Miriam becoming fat and playing with a chubby version of Miriam coming to mind now. I thought the not getting fat thing would be a given. This is definitely something that will affect game play drastically. 1. Miriam eats too much cake and gets fat, so can't jump as high. 2. Miriam finds the gym and goes through a workout session to slim down so she can jump normal height again. 3. Miriam over does it in the gym and gets completely ripped and is able to jump extra high
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 8, 2017 13:23:23 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard I'd say it's more-than-likely that any of the characters lacking RPG mechanics [& needing to adapt with what they already have] is the situation that Classic Mode will present to us. Otherwise? Unless there are Level Cap settings that allow you to truly restrict level-progress [ all the way down to staying at Level 1 the whole time], I'd think all three playable characters will be able to Level Up in the main story. All the same, I'd certainly be interested in seeing what each character's basic attacks, sub-weapons, and secret moves will be like in Classic Mode.Busterific Maybe, through exercise in a secret gym area, Miriam will become nimble enough to execute gravity-defying spin jumps like Samus Aran.
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Post by Busterific on Nov 8, 2017 14:17:43 GMT -6
Busterific Maybe, through exercise in a secret gym area, Miriam will become nimble enough to execute gravity-defying spin jumps like Samus Aran. I was thinking more along the lines of the rocket jump thing that Alucard could do in Symphony of the Night where he shoots up strait in the air. I forget what it's called, but it doesn't actually involve rockets. Having the Samus jump would put an interesting spin on things though.
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 8, 2017 14:33:14 GMT -6
Busterific You mean the Gravity Boots. You can also use them for diagonal high-jumps. The following video is what I was thinking of when suggesting the Samus-style spin jump: Yep... Totally possible to achieve in real gymnastics!
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Post by Busterific on Nov 8, 2017 15:18:58 GMT -6
Galamoth. Yes, the Gravity Boots were what I was thinking of. I didn't realize you could use them diagonally. Usually by the time I got them I didn't use them much. I don't think I'd seen that advertisement before. I was thinking the spin jumps in Super Metroid.
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