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Post by krystal on Aug 30, 2017 13:26:24 GMT -6
They should make whips just as common as swords, and not be outclassed in stats nor usefulness. 100% whip runs should be possible and people that prefer only using whips should not be punished for only using whips.
even in IGAvanias, swords is favored too much over whip (if there's even whips at all without resorting to a different character). Miriam appears to be adaptable to all kinds of weapons pretty much, and we seen some whip animation, though whips shouldn't be a rare or uncommon thing. So whips should be alongside sword in common findings, and have decent stats and usefulness so whips are just as viable for all fights.
there has yet to be an IGAvania where the lead character (that isn't a Belmont/Morris/whip specialist) has access to whips from the very start and find more whips to update their stats on a regular basis. most IGAvanias favor swords or other weapons, but whips especially in SOTN are not even considered for the MC to specialize in.
So whips definitely should have a common presence and get as much attention and favoritism as swords will obviously be getting.
Miriam is likely to have a wide selection of weapons, but we know perhaps only 1 or a few categories are gonna be effecient, and perhaps only 1 type will be commonly found, though Whips shouldn't be left on the side nor a scarce category of weapon to find and be effecient.
so when I say whips should be everywhere, I mean any location a new/better sword is found, a new/better whip should be obtainable there as well.
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 30, 2017 14:27:43 GMT -6
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 30, 2017 14:38:31 GMT -6
Well, it shouldn't necessarily be a whip for every sword found, but all types distributed fairly evenly. "Swords" fall into a few of the established categories though, so there will definitely be more of those, but we also need spears, rods, maces, shoes, guns/bullets and so on.
Whips being outclassed shouldn't be as much of a problem anyway since we have the crafting system, and in our interview we recently did with Angel from 505 (the publisher), he told us not to worry about weapon viability. Me personally, I'm hoping for a flashing classic chain whip!
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Post by freddythemonkey on Aug 30, 2017 16:44:59 GMT -6
To be fair in Portrait of Ruin the Vampire Killer was the most powerful weapon counting the holy element and the weapon art which obliterated pretty much every monster in the game. Also, you did find whips pretty regularly in that game.
I agree with the point though, but regarding every weapon. There should be a viable option for every category at various points of the game.
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Post by neff on Sept 1, 2017 7:23:14 GMT -6
As a person that is considering a 100% shoe run, There are going to be moments where one weapon may be easier to use over another. The whip has range, so it is only natural that there is going to be some power and usage differences between it and the sword. the question is which one suits you.
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Post by krystal on Sept 1, 2017 9:08:41 GMT -6
ah thanks for info, sounds like whips could be common enough to be viable and 100% whip runs possible.
perhaps the very first part could have a whip somewhere.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Sept 1, 2017 10:45:46 GMT -6
Igavania games normally works with something called "weapon tiers" that is also used in some RPGs and other kinds of games. Basically, you have a bunch of basic tiers for weapons and you decide what kinds of weapons will fit on each tier. Consider a "tier" to be a overall power level. I don't remember a single Igavania game where you had all types of weapons for all tiers. They are unevenly distributed. Considering Bloodstained has forging and crafting and Angel from 505 games, told us to not worry "too much" about weapon usefulness (he even said, when asked about what would be the thing he wanted most to talk about and couldn't, he said "weapons"). So, all in all, weapons in Bloostained will be massive and diverse, i believe.
Whips wil, no doubt, be there from the beginning to the end.
Also, i have to remind, even before kickstarter started, there was the "sword or whip" mini-site, where people could vote for a sword or a whip and, sometimes, select a "clan" that was a type of weapon. Much later, it was revealed that this was a hidden way to select what type of weapon would be the most powerful weapon in the game (the winner was Sword => Katana). That means, in short, that they considered a whip to be the most powerful weapon in the game from the beginning. No reason to not have a lot of them now.
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Post by Enkeria on Sept 1, 2017 11:23:54 GMT -6
If we can upgrade a weapon of our choice, to become a higher tier after collecting enough materials and gold. I think we can level up every weapon to a point. The cap / point / level is something I am more curious about. For example. Can I take the first white sword in the game, and level it all the way up to max tier, becoming the best item in the game? This if I grind enough, get all the materials needed. Or does it have a cap efter perhaps 1-10 crafting "level ups"? This would only make the late weapons become anything you really want to invest those craftingpoints into. I believe you can go a complete Whip run with Miriam if you want. But then again, perhaps Johannes is playable and it seems like he have a whip as his only weapon. We need more info about all of this  |
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Post by Redogan on Sept 1, 2017 16:37:18 GMT -6
I really like spears, halberds, maces/flails, and whips. Swords are awesome, but I like having weapons with range. I just finished a PoR playthrough. I really enjoyed using the Long Spear and Alucard's Spear with Jonathan. I'm running through in Richiter mode now. I really like that the move animation is like Richter's double-tap run animation from SotN. Richiter moves fast in PoR. I kind of wouldn't mind if Miriam moved that fast....
But, back on topic, Richiter's whip is very satisfying to use. I'm all for lots of whips to choose from.
PS--> I'm referring to Richter in PoR as Richiter because that is how it is spelled when you are selecting modes. Lol.
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Post by krystal on Sept 2, 2017 21:26:15 GMT -6
Ah though it would be better if Miriam can be a whip master too. that's better than a premade character being the only one that can 100% whip the whole game. plus with the talk of weapon upgrades, yea people may be right that 100% whip runs may be viable. unlike Alucard and Shanoa, Miriam can specialize and even exclusively use whips for the whole game, without the whip selection being outdated in stats. it just depends how early and how common and how upgradeable they are to stay viable. so yea its better for Miriam to master all and one specific weapon style, based on player preference and all types of weapons are viable. Miriam is looking to be the first IGAvania protagonist, that doesn't have a history of whip specialization, but can be a whip specialist depending on player preference. |
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Post by Lestaroth on Sept 6, 2017 10:06:48 GMT -6
Weapons should be made so everyone enjoys them and switches from one type to another, with a concept of proper balancing, naturally.
Power, speed, range, ability cooldown... they should always bring a sense of variation.
Another thing to keep in mind is that some weapons will inevitably be set aside in favor of more potent ones. That should be reduced to a minimum, hopefully by crafting.
As for the proportion of whips vs swords, they should be equal, the ultimate weapon being the swordwhip, a fusion of both.
I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest.
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Post by Redogan on Sept 6, 2017 11:20:10 GMT -6
I like most of the weapon types. The ones I don't like are the guns, shoes, and daggers/knives.
The shoes, daggers, and knives are too close range. It just doesn't feel right to fight demon's with your hands/feet or a small blade. This isn't kickboxer.
I don't like the guns because it feels out of place in a gothic Castlevania-style setting. It's the same feeling when you play Lords of Shadow 2 and you are running around in a city with cars, street lights, etc. It feels out of place. It would be like dropping a Call of Duty combat marine with a machine gun in the middle of a battle with King Authur and his knights. They just don't go together. Or, if you prefer, drop Conan the Barbarian (clad in loin cloth with extra large claymore) in the middle of WWII.
I know that guns would logically be part of the era that Bloodstained takes place in, but it comes down to making the wise choice in battle. "Never bring a knife to a gun fight." Right? Why would Miriam use any type of melee weapon if she could just pick up a gun? Guns would be the go-to weapon to fight everything. And I don't want my Igavania games playing like Call of Duty.
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Post by Enkeria on Sept 6, 2017 11:43:59 GMT -6
Why would Miriam use any type of melee weapon if she could just pick up a gun? - Maybe it is a pain to dip every bullet in holy water, even if she would bring it to the battle. - Maybe cut-wounds to bleed some enemies are the way to go, if not kicking their head off or bullets can do any harm. - Maybe the guns are getting worse by the range, and have the same limit as a spear or whip. --- I like to be close. Always pick barbarian in games or warriors if I can, so kicking some butt in Bruce Lee style is cool, and a bit difficulty. I guess the pay-off are worth it. I think all weapons are there for flavor. You pick what you want to play with. I just hope that the end-tier of weapons are actually balanced. So even gun-crazy people could somehow enjoy it like the ones using whip or sword, and the rest. This stuff makes the games weapons HARD to balance out. I mean, how do you make a dagger be as good as a longer ranged whip? And how much should you nerf the gun to actually be as "good" as the whip? I think we get the Swordwhip as a close end-game weapon, but the ones that will be balanced as a real end-game tier weapon would be one sword and one whip. Even though we would love boots and daggers to join that tier. And even so, perhaps every item COULD be upgraded with the crafting/forging, and if it is unlimited, and you love to grind, then any whip in the game could become overpowered like crazy. Must do a few replays however to gather the materials. Really depends on so many things when it comes to what weapons can be used from start to finish. Too many factions and variables included. |
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Post by Redogan on Sept 6, 2017 12:10:42 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that guns/shoes/daggers/knives are in. I'm glad that so much variety will be available for those who wish to use a little of everything. I will try everything out as well. I just have clear preferences with what weapons I like to use. I will most likely try out the guns and other weapons I don't really like and then put them away. I can't see myself really enjoying using some of them. The only real close-range weapon I can remember using extensively in SotN was the Jewel Knuckles. I picked those up early because they were so strong. I remember wondering when there would be another sword to find that was more powerful so I could put away the Jewel Knuckles. Ha. I wonder what Alucard would have been like if he used whips?  |
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