Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 10, 2017 5:29:50 GMT -6
Retro Level"One section of the castle will feature an area that Miriam can traverse in beautiful retro graphics. We've been referring to this section as the “8-bit Level” internally, although it may be closer to 16+ bit depending on how we mix it with the full game. While a full-blown 8-bit game doesn't fit into the game's budget, backer support will allow us to have fun with the development and create a little retro magic in our game." - Update 2 - May 14 2015 - Source Classic Mode will give us stages, linear adventure and a 'Castlevania'-feel from the old days before the RPG-elements were introduced. Inti-Creates development for the prequel will be a complete 'Classic / Modern' game with probably a combination of the best aspects from both Castlevania, Metroid and Igavania, with an Inti-Creates twist. Meanwhile the actual main game will have a Retro Level inside of it. Perhaps a hidden room, or special odd room or an corridor of some sorts. This thread is about the Retro Level, not to be confused with either Classic Mode or Bloodstained - Ritual of the Night prequel. What do you expect to see in this environment / area of which will be a "Retro Level"?Whole Section?Do you think it will be a complete section of the map, for example, instead of going to the "Garden of the Unbound", you end up in "The Lost Arena" which have many different locations attached to it? Everything from a bigger area to a corridor some rooms before you exit the place and goes back to "normal" again? Small Room?Do you think it is perhaps just one room, where there is no need for a door of any kind, the transcition from one fram to another would be fine since there are less for the game engine to process once you get close to that room. If so, what will the room contain? Would it have a tribute of some kind? Will it have a pixelated version of something you have seen before in the game? Perhaps it is a room with nothing but just cool backgrounds, like paintings and information? Big Room?Or, do you think the retro level will be one big room (2x3 or 2x2) with lots of floors and details, showing all kinds of things, even have unique (or remade) enemies? AssetsDo you think Inti-Creates will borrow their assets for making this level in Bloodstained - RotN connected to the prequel, or would you rather see IGA take charge in that area, making a, what we would believe, his vision of Miriam and the environment if he could have gathered enough pixel-artists to actually make the whole game in that fashion? RulesThink about it, there are some creative freedoms in this, the rules are almost out of the window. The movement, the backdrop philosophy (having it darker than the forground) and behaviours are all within those rules. Example. Will same breakable things be breakable? Are the speed the same? Same sounds or not? Are there something different in this area, or would it be like the rest of the game except for the graphics? And speaking of rules.. ShardsLastly, how will the shards work in this level? Will they look 2,5 D? Will Miriam be LOCKED so she can't use any shards in this are, leaving us to believe it will be a cursed environment of some kind? Perhaps there will be a pixel-filter on-top of any of the shards we are using? Let me know!Mostly what you think, and add in what you really want to see as well. Thanks to Pure Miriam for the inspiration of this thread.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 10, 2017 13:42:24 GMT -6
How i inspired you? anyways, for the answers, in blueishWhat do you expect to see in this environment / area of which will be a "Retro Level"?Whole Section?Do you think it will be a complete section of the map, for example, instead of going to the "Garden of the Unbound", you end up in "The Lost Arena" which have many different locations attached to it? Everything from a bigger area to a corridor some rooms before you exit the place and goes back to "normal" again? Yes, i believe the retro-level will be a whole area of the map. It doesn't make any sense to talk about a retro-level and don't do anything more than few rooms and corridors, in my opinion.Small Room?Do you think it is perhaps just one room, where there is no need for a door of any kind, the transcition from one fram to another would be fine since there are less for the game engine to process once you get close to that room. If so, what will the room contain? Would it have a tribute of some kind? Will it have a pixelated version of something you have seen before in the game? Perhaps it is a room with nothing but just cool backgrounds, like paintings and information? That would be kinda silly. As i explained above, i expect a full level, a whole section of the castle to be the retro-level.Big Room?Or, do you think the retro level will be one big room (2x3 or 2x2) with lots of floors and details, showing all kinds of things, even have unique (or remade) enemies? Answered above. AssetsDo you think Inti-Creates will borrow their assets for making this level in Bloodstained - RotN connected to the prequel, or would you rather see IGA take charge in that area, making a, what we would believe, his vision of Miriam and the environment if he could have gathered enough pixel-artists to actually make the whole game in that fashion? I see no reason why Inti-Creates couldn't get the assets from the retro-level of bloodstained, or the other way around. 505 games and inti are together, in a way, at this whole convo. it's way easier to reuse (maybe with adaptions) assets than creating more of them. Game development is all about using resources effectively.RulesThink about it, there are some creative freedoms in this, the rules are almost out of the window. The movement, the backdrop philosophy (having it darker than the forground) and behaviours are all within those rules. And speaking of rules.. I don't really think i understood what do you mean here. Like, the overall rules of the game to be changed inside the retro-level? I don't think so. ShardsLastly, how will the shards work in this level? Will they look 2,5 D? Will Miriam be LOCKED so she can't use any shards in this are, leaving us to believe it will be a cursed environment of some kind? Perhaps there will be a pixel-filter on-top of any of the shards we are using? I believe the retro-level will have the same overall rules for Miriam, her own assets / powers / weapons and shards.Let me know!Mostly what you think, and add in what you really want to see as well. Well, overall, i believe that the retro-level will be an area of the castle where the graphics are 16 bits, maybe close to Super Castlevania IV (i really love those dark-style graphics) but Miriam and the enemies will still be the same. For some reason, i don't believe they will take the time to make everything pixelated inside there, it would take a lot of work to do that. I also believe the area will be somekind of alternate dimension. If it is completely linked to the castle, it would be really odd, since it is harder to explain, plot-wise, why suddenly the world was reshaped in a pixelated fasion. Alternate dimensions are easier to do that.Thanks to Pure Miriam for the inspiration of this thread.
No worries mate!
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 10, 2017 18:34:48 GMT -6
Inspiration: A lot of questions, deep-dive into subjects and answers worth having.
Thanks for the reply!
Rules Think about it, there are some creative freedoms in this, the rules are almost out of the window. The movement, the backdrop philosophy (having it darker than the forground) and behaviours are all within those rules. Example. Will same breakable things be breakable? Are the speed the same? Same sounds or not? Are there something different in this area, or would it be like the rest of the game except for the graphics? And speaking of rules..
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 10, 2017 21:51:26 GMT -6
Visions? Yes...my vision is...I'm in it. It's awesome. I give her macaroni. People ship us. It's a cheesy pairing.
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Aug 12, 2017 10:42:21 GMT -6
To be concise, I'll just say this:
Yes, I also believe that the retro level will be a part of the castle, an ensemble of connected rooms, possibly small in nature. The rules will apply no matter what. Weapons and shards collected before entering will work there, albeit in a retro form (that's a lot of work to do!), shards, a 8 or 16-bit weapon, familiar(s), all usable outside... A retro boss (why not one returning from the prequel but in a different form?). Maybe even a retro-looking Miriam.
A secret code to play as retro Miriam would be cool too (probably a skin that can't be changed by costumes).
...And yes, I believe that the retro level is done by Inti Creates, for them to have at least showcased something for the main game! (haters will then complain the game wasn't in 2D form, but hey, it's how it is!)
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 12, 2017 11:59:50 GMT -6
I basically expect the "Retro Level" to be a portion of the castle rendered in 16 bit graphics. I'd be surprised if there were "retro enemies" but that would be pleasant. I highly doubt Miriam will transform into some kind of "retro 16 bit Miriam" though, as cool as that might be.
EDIT: just thought I'd add that the reason I think this will be the case is that adding in all kinds of pixelated enemies, shards, effects etc. Would take a great deal of time, and I feel like the team dont want to devote a ton of time to a single extra feature, especially one that's probably purely cosmetic as opposed to a full mode.
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 12, 2017 19:06:46 GMT -6
The boss they revealed to us that uses portals is how I figure it'll go down. Basically in one of the areas of the game we go into her portal and it transports us to another dimension .... ahem... the 2d dimension.
It seems predictable ( in a good way) enough for it to be how it goes down.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 13, 2017 2:06:33 GMT -6
The boss they revealed to us that uses portals is how I figure it'll go down. Basically in one of the areas of the game we go into her portal and it transports us to another dimension .... ahem... the 2d dimension. It seems predictable ( in a good way) enough for it to be how it goes down. GREMORI The 56th demon in Solomon’s grimoire. A demon with the status of a duke, also known as the goddess of the moon. Summoned by Gebel, this demon oversees one portion of the castle. She is capable of creating portals into different dimensions; once there, she can harness the power of the moon and use it to attack her enemies, firing endless crescent moon knives at her opponents. She also has a devastating gravity attack that's generated by power of the lacquer-black moon.
The above sentences are merely conceptual and could change for the final game.
This one, right?
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 13, 2017 5:07:22 GMT -6
Will she guard the Retro Level? Will she guard the first Teleportation Chamber? or.. Will she guard a pathway to the 2nd realm, the alternate dimension of the whole castle?
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 13, 2017 8:38:18 GMT -6
The boss they revealed to us that uses portals is how I figure it'll go down. Basically in one of the areas of the game we go into her portal and it transports us to another dimension .... ahem... the 2d dimension. It seems predictable ( in a good way) enough for it to be how it goes down. GREMORI The 56th demon in Solomon’s grimoire. A demon with the status of a duke, also known as the goddess of the moon. Summoned by Gebel, this demon oversees one portion of the castle. She is capable of creating portals into different dimensions; once there, she can harness the power of the moon and use it to attack her enemies, firing endless crescent moon knives at her opponents. She also has a devastating gravity attack that's generated by power of the lacquer-black moon.
The above sentences are merely conceptual and could change for the final game.
This one, right?Yup that one. It's no surprise to me that, that boss was designed early and the retro was thought about during the Kickstarter. Probably connected.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 13, 2017 13:08:40 GMT -6
Endless crescent moon knives sure sounds like Death sickle projectiles, doesn't it?
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 13, 2017 14:32:17 GMT -6
Endless crescent moon knives sure sounds like Death sickle projectiles, doesn't it? OH MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT WHY DID I NOT CATCH THAT
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Post by Galamoth on Aug 13, 2017 18:25:48 GMT -6
"Gremori = Death-analogue" confirmed? :3
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 13, 2017 19:26:11 GMT -6
I wish they wouldn't be so afraid to use public domain type enemies. First skeletons than a knock off Death. Just call it a Grim Reaper and boom you have a different name but a similar enemy fans can feel at home with. It's sad enough we lost Dracula, but death AND skeletons!
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Enkeria
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Post by Enkeria on Aug 13, 2017 19:58:39 GMT -6
I wish they wouldn't be so afraid to use public domain type enemies. First skeletons than a knock off Death. Just call it a Grim Reaper and boom you have a different name but a similar enemy fans can feel at home with. It's sad enough we lost Dracula, but death AND skeletons! Hold your horses! We have not seen so many enemies yet, and it seems like they have a big library of them. Lets see what they have for us before we think about what we "miss"
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Post by Galamoth on Aug 13, 2017 20:23:13 GMT -6
I wish they wouldn't be so afraid to use public domain type enemies. First skeletons than a knock off Death. Just call it a Grim Reaper and boom you have a different name but a similar enemy fans can feel at home with. It's sad enough we lost Dracula, but death AND skeletons! At least you can be sure that many [if not all] Ars Goetia demon names will be used, considering this game involves demons as a major plot-element.
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 13, 2017 22:40:43 GMT -6
I wish they wouldn't be so afraid to use public domain type enemies. First skeletons than a knock off Death. Just call it a Grim Reaper and boom you have a different name but a similar enemy fans can feel at home with. It's sad enough we lost Dracula, but death AND skeletons! At least you can be sure that many [if not all] Ars Goetia demon names will be used, considering this game involves demons as a major plot-element. but but but ...dracula....skeleton's...medusa....and DEATH
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 13, 2017 22:48:16 GMT -6
Woah man, I was just making a loose connection, no reason to get riled up over Death being out. Like my answer to PM's big question thread, he's the one enemy/boss I want back the most, and for him to talk some trash like he always does...
I do/will respect their wishes to separate themselves and stand on their own. Just as much though, I want those old 'vania things. It's tough.
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Post by Galamoth on Aug 14, 2017 5:14:42 GMT -6
Woah man, I was just making a loose connection, no reason to get riled up over Death being out. Like my answer to PM's big question thread, he's the one enemy/boss I want back the most, and for him to talk some trash like he always does... I do/will respect their wishes to separate themselves and stand on their own. Just as much though, I want those old 'vania things. It's tough. I mean, that could always be an idea for a Silly Cheat Code. Just activate a code that forces Gremori's dialogue to change (assuming the demon will have any scripted dialogue) to the following: "DEATH REFERENCE, DEATH REFERENCE, DEATH REFERENCE! Blah blah blah see your death, blah blah blah do not interfere."
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 14, 2017 8:17:40 GMT -6
Woah man, I was just making a loose connection, no reason to get riled up over Death being out. Like my answer to PM's big question thread, he's the one enemy/boss I want back the most, and for him to talk some trash like he always does... I do/will respect their wishes to separate themselves and stand on their own. Just as much though, I want those old 'vania things. It's tough. I think what bugs me about it is that it's already pretty much a Castlevania clone. If you didn't show me the name of this game and I didn't know about the kickstarter i'd say it's a brand new Castlevania title. So it seems strange to want to distance themselves while still largely making quite a similar game. For me what's wrong with making public domain type monsters? They wouldn't be able to sue for that...and people want their castlevania so giving us something we've wanted isn't bad. That doesn't mean they have to utilize these enemies in the exact same ways....like the medusa enemies don't have to be floating heads, or the skeletons don't have to throw bones, or Dracula/Grim Reaper don't have to function the same way as they did before. That's just how I look at it, to me I say they go all in...... if Konami won't give us what we want then let me throw money at whoever will.
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