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Post by Pure Miriam on May 26, 2017 3:31:43 GMT -6
Just to illustrate the thread. Bored as hell (hell is boring?) and eager for a discussion, i decided to create a thread talking about numbers. Yeah... Well, to explain a bit, i was looking for some castlevania-related info and i found out some sites with lists showing up how much content each game had. I thought this was interesting and decided to do this thread. The idea is to do a comparison, content-wise, over some interesting data from some Castlevania games (not all of them, mostly the 2d ones) and what we could expect from Bloodstained, content-wise. How many powers, enemies, items, areas and such, some of Castlevania series games had, and what we could expect from Bloodstained to have. I included just the games that i think are more close to what Bloodstained seems to be. Weapons are all equipable weapons of the game. Gear include all equipable defensive gear. Items include healing and usable items, information items and some special items. Enemies include all enemies officially shown at the game's bestiary, including bosses. Bosses are just the number of bosses itself, including bosses that are couples and groups together and other forms. Powers include all powers and combinations the main character has. Game size include map size information (i wasn't able to find how many rooms the other games had, unfortunately). UPDATED: Added Castle size information thanks to ripperYeah... this sounds like a useless thread, i know. I just wanted to discuss something and that is what i came up with. I don't know if anyone will care about it, but, anyways... Here goes: SYMPHONY OF THE NIGHT Weapons: 69. Gear (Armor, Cloaks, Sheld, Head Gear, Accessories): 99. Items: 88. Enemies: 146. Bosses: 18. Powers (Alucard Spells): 6. Game size: 1890 rooms. HARMONY OF DISSONANCE Weapons (Whip upgrades): 9. Gear (Armor, Cloaks, Head Gear, Hand & Arm Gear, Leg Protection, Accessories): 128. Items: 28. Enemies: 100. Bosses: 21. Powers (Spell Fusion (Spell Books + Subweapons): 30. Game size: 1348 rooms. ARIA OF SORROW Weapons: 60. Gear (Armor, Acessories): 45. Items: 31. Enemies: 112. Bosses: 16. Powers (Souls): 119. Game size: 928 rooms. DAWN OF SORROW Weapons: 76. Gear (Armor, Acessories): 30. Items: 60. Enemies: 116. Bosses: 18. Powers (Souls): 117. Game size: 1023 rooms. ORDER OF ECCLESIA Weapons: --- Gear (Armor, Head gear, Leg protection): 119. Items: 103. Enemies: 121. Bosses: 14. Powers (Glyphs and Glyph Unions): 102. Game size: 1335 rooms.
Another picture just to illustrate the thread. So, considering all that data, there is some interesting numbers we can get from that. In general, Igavania games that are more closely to Bloodstained, none of them was able to get close to 100 weapons. They are all around 60 to 70. Gear, at the other hand, is quite random, since some are smaller than 50, and some goes a bit higher than 100. Items are mostly under 100, with the exception of Order of Ecclesia (that has quest items). All those games had at least 100 enemies. Bosses are almost never beyond 20. most of them are inside the 10's. Powers from the games that you collect powers from enemies, goes from around 70 to over 100. (Order has actually 73 Glyphs. Glyph unions aren't picked from enemies). Some had two castles, some had one castle and "something else". Order had not connected areas and then the castle. IGA has said that the game will be his biggest castle yet, the game will have a forging system (and that requires materials), a quest system, five types of shards... All that can inflate the numbers. We also need to remember that sometimes, quality over quantity is better than quantity over quality (but not always). So, how do you expect the numbers of Bloodstained to be and it's content? Updated with ripper's information regarding castle sizes.
That's all folks!
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on May 26, 2017 5:32:04 GMT -6
Interesting topic! It wouldn't surprise me if the numbers for Bloodstained were massively higher. As you say, the crafting system might lead to a lot of variety, so who knows, we may see thousands of different weapon variants
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Post by freddythemonkey on May 26, 2017 6:52:00 GMT -6
I would be happy even with "just" 150 or so enemies, provided that they are ALL (or mostly) unique. Palette swapping an enemy is understandable, but a bit lazy as far as I'm concerned. I would like a number of bosses between 25 and 30, if the game is that big. Also, even a bit less than 100 weapons is fine. All in all, I know IGA said biggest castle and all, but really for me it's a matter of quality. In those weapons, I'd like a number of "ultimate", "unique" or even viable weapons, that have identity and charm. Among those bosses, I want unique challenging bosses, not biggest version of normal enemies (Harmony of Dissonance was so guilty of this). And so on. I hope I got my point across lol
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on May 26, 2017 11:26:02 GMT -6
I personally wonder if this may depend on how many suggestions from fans (in both the Weapons & Enemy Ideas threads) end up being considered for implementing into the game.
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Yän
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Post by Yän on May 26, 2017 16:00:36 GMT -6
Cool thread! If you ask me, OoE has 15 Bosses. And wow did DoS really have so many bosses. I thought there were just like 14 or so.
I expect to see more weapons in Bloodstained - even the runic forging alone gives us 20 more weapons and if they're still going with the crafting system, that could lead to even more. I'm not sure about gear - the gear that I really care about is gear that changes up some game mechanics, not just raw defense boosters. I don't expect to see more gear in Bloodstained than in SotN I don't care too much about items that are just different sorts of food but ultimately all do the same (giving you HP). I hope for many varied enemies with different mechics to them. We'll see. I think that something around 150 is absolutely enough if they feel different enough from each other. It should also be doable if they are clever about it when making their enemy-creation-tools. Just for additional reference, the fangame The Lecarde Chronicles 2 has 152 enemies. Hopefully we'll see many bosses in Bloodstained. I'd really like to see some more of those unique, creative bosses that are special not only through their attack patterns but also in the way they interact with the environment. When it comes to numbers, I think that 20 would be pretty cool. Just a rough estimate though. Less could be more here if that means that the bosses are more polished, unique and creative. In terms of powers (shards) I expect around as many as in the Sorrow games: While not every enemy will have a shard, there will likely be more enemies. There are also more categories this time around so that could mean more powers in total...? As for the castle - we all know that it's supposed to be IGAs biggest yet. I'd prefer a smaller, more polished castle over a larger copypastaland though.
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Post by chocolatestain on May 27, 2017 17:09:23 GMT -6
Interesting to see the numbers for the old games. With those in mind it would be hard to imagine that the team would have time to create much more than 100 enemies. The bigger castle may demand more. We would probably be fortunate to get 150.
The number of weapons is probably a different story. With the forging and parameters they have set there is probably potential for many times more than previous games. That would be cool, but also a hell of a lot of work balancing the posibilities.
I have nothing to base this next opinion on, but I have a feeling there will be a ton of items. Maybe a few hundred. Food items were one of my favorite to collect.
And finally, castles. I forgot that other handheld Castlevanias had two castles or another dimension, even though I played them all. (I only played the handhelds once.) With all the modes the team has to develop, I was trying not to get my hopes too higb, but now it's pretty obvious that something like a dupe castle or another dimension is really a staple of an Igavania game. I've raised my hopes again, but I will still be surprised if they do actually manage to do something extra to the entire layout in this respect.
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Post by CastleDan on May 28, 2017 12:03:09 GMT -6
I just hope for a lot of gear and a lot UNIQUE weapons. Enemies dropping stuff like a Medusa shield or finding really cool armor types or cloaks is what made the game so enjoyable to me. I want to have a plethora of things to collect and use but things that really feel special.
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Post by achieveddemall on Oct 25, 2017 17:24:03 GMT -6
I just hope that there are alot of enemies and a bestiary to fill out by killing x amount of them, also would love to have to grind a bit for crafting item drops from mobs
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neff
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Post by neff on Oct 26, 2017 7:29:55 GMT -6
what are your thoughta on useless items, the stuff like shuriken or monster potion 2?
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 29, 2017 0:34:02 GMT -6
what are your thoughta on useless items, the stuff like shuriken or monster potion 2? I believe the magic system of later Igavania games are a substitute for that kind of stuff. Soul Dominance (Aria and Dawn of Sorrow) / Glyph Art (Order of Ecclesia), even Fusion Spell from Harmony of Dissonance (a bit limited) and, of course, Shard System (Bloodstained) cover all that and more. Using the few Shards we know of Bloodstained, you have Fire Cannon for Flaming Shurikens, you have the various Demon summoning Shards as a substitute for Monster vials, you have Shards that increase stats or offer resistances as a substitute for the resist potions and such. These items would be redundant considering that the game's magic system can have all that. That's probably why they don't exist in later Igavania games.
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Post by ripper on Oct 29, 2017 17:26:57 GMT -6
Here is the size of each game:
Symphony of the Night: 1,890 squares Portrait of Ruin: 1,846 squares Harmony of Dissonance: 1348 squares Order of Ecclesia: 1,335 squares Dawn of Sorrow: 1023 squares Circle of the Moon: 980 squares Aria of Sorrow: 928 squares
Any room that did not count towards the total % was not included.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 29, 2017 19:40:28 GMT -6
Here is the size of each game: Symphony of the Night: 1,890 squares Portrait of Ruin: 1,846 squares Harmony of Dissonance: 1348 squares Order of Ecclesia: 1,335 squares Dawn of Sorrow: 1023 squares Circle of the Moon: 980 squares Aria of Sorrow: 928 squares Any room that did not count towards the total % was not included. It's also worth noting, as we have on this site so many times before, that the total number of squares (or "rooms") in both SotN & HoD is due to there being two traversible Castles. ^ As for PoR & OoE, their totals are due to areas separate from the Castle itself.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Oct 30, 2017 5:41:49 GMT -6
Here is the size of each game: Symphony of the Night: 1,890 squares Portrait of Ruin: 1,846 squares Harmony of Dissonance: 1348 squares Order of Ecclesia: 1,335 squares Dawn of Sorrow: 1023 squares Circle of the Moon: 980 squares Aria of Sorrow: 928 squares Any room that did not count towards the total % was not included. Thanks for the information! updated the first post.
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