Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jun 29, 2015 20:45:20 GMT -6
So I'm a bit of a movement snob when it comes to platformers. The worst thing a side scrolling game can do IMO is focus to much on combat, story or items and neglect the core movements.
Luckily Iga has proven he knows how to make a game feel good, so I'm not worried about that with Bloodstained, but character controls are essential to they play experience and everyone has an opinion on what's best. I thought it would be fun to discuss some of our ideas in detail.
Personally I'm considering the idea of altering the traditional double jump in favor of an omni directional dash. Sort of like Mighty No. 9 but not restricted to horizontal movement. That's just for the sake of being different though.
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 29, 2015 20:50:07 GMT -6
I like Aria of Sorrow's dash skill. It's in DoS, and OoE as well. The one where you hold down a button and you travel super fast with an aura. Hope that makes it into Bloodstained.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 29, 2015 20:56:43 GMT -6
Yeah, I liked that too. It made travel a lot faster. I doubt we can go without a double jump though, that's almost a given for these sorts of games nowadays.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 29, 2015 21:16:26 GMT -6
An 8 way air dash is useful in the context of a fighting game but without the type of combat or platforming that would require movement like that, its seems hard to imagine something like that in Bloodstained. I do hope we do get a good forward dash (both ground and air) in this game though. Perhaps something like Richter's dash but easier to execute. Or maybe akin to the Black Panther Soul in the Sorrow games. It's always so weird that in multiple Castlevanias that the fastest way to move is to baskdash & weapon/shield cancel and other awkward stuff. See:
I mean that's cute but not ideal for what fast movement should look like in a game. Granted Inticreates has lots of experience making good feeling movement with the Zero and ZX series games so I'm not too concerned for this game unless weird decisions get made.
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Arcueid Brunestud
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 29, 2015 21:20:53 GMT -6
Pfft, backdash spam is nothing compared to UEUEUE Dive kick spam.
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gunlord500
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Post by gunlord500 on Jun 29, 2015 21:42:32 GMT -6
They should definitely keep dive kicks, those are fun
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jun 29, 2015 21:48:30 GMT -6
I would be disappointed if we don't have a dodge, dive kick, and dash of some sort. Plus some form of gravity boots because that's just plain good fun =)
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Jun 29, 2015 21:58:03 GMT -6
Backdash and dive kick are must-have. As for dashes, I wonder, would it be better to have short-distance dashes (with optional damage or passing through enemies) or constant dashes, which I'm guessing would be obtained later during the game? I'm good with either or both.
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Cale
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Post by Cale on Jun 30, 2015 0:46:35 GMT -6
They should definitely keep dive kicks, those are fun The Zaibatsu Clan support this post!
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Post by SookyLala on Jun 30, 2015 0:53:54 GMT -6
LeonThis is so off topic. but man, I hope to hell, Miriam is not like your signature
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Jun 30, 2015 1:43:01 GMT -6
You and me both. But it was certainly amusing to make! This is what lots of boredom does.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 30, 2015 1:48:50 GMT -6
You and me both. But it was certainly amusing to make! This is what lots of boredom does. Your avatar's eyes are scaring me, lol.
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Jun 30, 2015 1:50:08 GMT -6
Good. :3 Edit: For future reference, for whoever may wonder upon stumbling on this later, these are the aforementioned sign and avatar respectively: - Leon, thinking of the future
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 30, 2015 19:47:03 GMT -6
Getting rid of something that focuses and adds to jumping would be a bad sign. We don't need more of this --------------------------
we need more Diagonal traversal. The later DS games slowly went more and more into.. Long hallway into box room into long hallway into box room with copy and paste looks. They gotta avoid that. Having said that I loved aria's super quick movement relic you got later in the game. Would love for something like that to return or a wolf lightning run type function. ( now that was cool)
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ChucklesTheJester
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Post by ChucklesTheJester on Jul 1, 2015 12:25:21 GMT -6
Well we also have to keep in mind that there will be different characters to play through the full game with, so each of them will probably have different movement options. So one character could have a glide, while another has one of those super-jumps, while yet another could have a dash that can be done mid-air, it's a whole bunch of interesting possibilities, to be sure.
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 1, 2015 15:26:04 GMT -6
Its important to consider that player mobility is one thing that will affect how easy or hard a game is more than anything else. It will likely be very hard to make a game difficult at all if the player can dash in every direction, double jump, backstep, etc. Having one such ability is fine but once you have more than one it becomes difficult to make attacks that arent trivialized by one or more of them without being potentially unfair.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jul 1, 2015 15:39:51 GMT -6
Its important to consider that player mobility is one thing that will affect how easy or hard a game is more than anything else. It will likely be very hard to make a game difficult at all if the player can dash in every direction, double jump, backstep, etc. Having one such ability is fine but once you have more than one it becomes difficult to make attacks that arent trivialized by one or more of them without being potentially unfair. While that can be true, it also takes a high level of proficiency to be able to successfully juggle between all of those movement variables. So while having more tools at your disposal will certainly give you options, it can also be used against you by a savvy designer. It's all about balance.
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Post by ghaleon on Jul 1, 2015 15:45:09 GMT -6
Care to give some examplee of a game where mobility options are used against the player? I cant think of any.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jul 1, 2015 16:05:30 GMT -6
Care to give some examplee of a game where mobility options are used against the player? I cant think of any. Mirrors edge is built almost entirely around this concept. Devil May Cry is a good example of where the player has tons of options, but the enemies are built to counter many of those options. So it becomes a game in and of itself to know when to utilize the different mechanics. Mario games, especially the newer ones do this a lot. You have run, slide, crouch, stomp, dodge roll, double and triple jump, plus all the upgrade items that take it further, yet the level design, enemy placement and movement/attack patterns are what give the game it's difficulty. Dustforce is a sidescroller that places mobility at the center of the gameplay. Obviously those are just examples to answer your question. My point is simply that advanced traversal mechanics don't automatically mean the game is easier. It's all about balancing the players toolset against the obstacles you give them. A series of jumps across simple platforms is easy, but those same jumps with enemies scattered in between and spikes on the ceilings becomes more difficult. Having more tools means designers can be more creative... granted, it leaves room for bad design as well, but I don't think we have to worry about that problem with Iga =)
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 1, 2015 16:06:16 GMT -6
The one thing I liked about the test footage of Bloodstained is they seem to get the feel of 2d down. The character moves like a 2d sprite would, the enemies move like enemie sprites would, and the background has a very 2 dimensional look to it. It's very well done, and with polish could really look great. They just need to animate Miriam much more and make her look more majestic with her movements and attacks. That's what made Alucard so special, if movements made him seem larger than life.
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