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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 2, 2017 17:34:13 GMT -6
-This thread has been created after the release of Double Dragon IV, which is the subject of controversy. Is it good, or bad?*-
I have been feeling that the debate on what makes a good spiritual successor of a game is truly fascinating.
That said, what is your general feeling on retro-gaming?
Myself, I have begun in the eighties with the NES, with relatively good playability and graphics, if well-done enough.
The sound quality was a tad unrefined because of the limitations of the era, but it is still good to me. Some legendary themes stem from there after all.
I feel that only a game that was utter garbage in all departments or had a fatal flaw could be condemned.
Limitations were aplenty and glitches could easily occur (some leading to exploiting) as well.
Pixels are no problem to me, as long as the world is not populated by living blocks/boxes on legs/golems, etc.
I certainly prefer the SNES and PS1 eras, which are my favorites, but there are modern games that I wouldn't refuse at all.
Being a console gamer, I gladly escaped practices like shovelware and shareware. I guess I am a bit picky.
- In defense of pure old-school:
As of nowadays, I wouldn't mind playing old entries as is.
No loading times, no DLC, no cumbersome interface, no need for updates, no "now loading, please wait", no being spied on.
That said, my approach on puzzles, reflexes and analysis of setting plot and character motives (among others) have sharpened since then, so I don't think I could play games the same way I did back then.
Would a game too easy or sad to replay because you know how to tackle it? I'd say, it is all about patience and understanding the context.
- In defense of remakes:
I do enjoy a game that has been worked on enough so original drawbacks have been eliminated, or at least the worst ones removed.
It is easier to save and resume, accidental save-wiping is tougher to trigger, no crazy ass-long passwords to enter, no 255 limit, no four or seven letters max for character-naming**, easier to the eyes and ears (maybe), more possibilities of development, achievements (I like them but I generally don't try to get them all)...
As long as they don't pull the stupid retcon card. Grainy filters, or scanlines as options make me twitchy, too.
- As for the rest:
For me, direct porting without modifications is a bit lazy, under the motive of "Hey, play the game exactly like it was back then!".
The same goes for games where they added unremovable glitches to make it more "authentic". I am not that nostalgic, you know?
I am less keen on games that have been branded as new entries, with radically new mechanics and/or full series reset. Is it something you can relate your experience to? Can you feel the old spirit inside it?
Thanks, enjoy the thread.
*I don't think I'll buy it at all. Sorry, Arc Systemworks.
** You get fictional silver points if you manage to give me examples of JRPGs plagued by that! Redeemable for a crazy random video or two on Youtube.
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Astaroth
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Post by Astaroth on Feb 6, 2017 10:33:08 GMT -6
i can name at least 3 series, probably 4 but id have to check if you can rename in those
ill get it, but cant atm
im all for retro styled games, remakes, ports, and reimaginings, but like any new game the devs need to be aware of why each system is there and decide if its there to enhance the experience or just there because old games did it and make sure if it is just there because old games that its done in a way that isnt a pain to use
take axiom verge, it has a password system in it like old nes games, but instead of using it to load your saves, you use it to input codes that you find in the game and unlock things like language ciphers, they used an old and normally grating system in a new way that is much less irritating because you dont have to use it every time you load a game (and you can do silly stuff like use a famous code to do something very metroidlike)
however, one thing i will ding dd4 for is if youre making a retro game and you have the option between using nes or arcade graphics as your base, go for the arcade style graphics
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Post by Zechs on Feb 6, 2017 20:42:47 GMT -6
It depends. There have been a lot of ports, remakes and reimaginings. Some are good, some decent. Some not great. All depends on who is involved, if they wish to maintain the charm/atmoaphere.
Square did a decent job maintaining Chrono Trigger when porting it to PSX and DS.
Capcom didn't do a terrific job reimagining MegaMan X.
Oddworld Inhabitants did a good job remaking Oddworld.
Gameloft did a poor job remastering Earthworm Jim.
I like older games. Lots more charm. But to bring it to a new console, it needs care. Care to port, care to reimagine, care to remake, etc. It is easy to see those with a lack of care. Which hurts the fanbase of said game and the game longevity outside its original release.
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 7, 2017 15:39:54 GMT -6
Wow, I had abandoned this thread, thinking I'd never get replies. Thank you Astaroth and ZechsTo Astaroth: Hmm, it is true that game companies can rely a lot on their legacy for a quick buck. When I look for a remake or a collection, I aim for those of games that were great (games risk not being good enough with age). It's all about finding the spirit of the original, while the remake or port makes it enjoyable still. Passwords for Axiom Verge? Yes, old companies tended to add features as easter games in their games, but it wasn't so common. It was more about game progress. Nice throwback from the devs. ^^ To Zechs: Chrono Trigger for PS1, a good port? If you don't count the stupid loading times for accessing the menu, then yes. I loved the extras for it. After that, the retcon to be directly linked to Chrono Cross irked me. Megaman X? Not a good remake? You sure? You should check Megaman: Maverick Hunter X. I got it, it's plain kickass. I prefer it so much more than Megaman: Powered Up. Never really tried Oddworld, besides a demo of Abe's Oddyssey (briefly). I can't say much about it. As for Earthworm Jim, it's really a loss. I loved the second, which I still got the cartridge of for Super Nintendo. By the way, I am tempted to get the full bundle of Star Wars games now available on Humble Bundle! (As of 07 Feb 2017, all fresh!) |
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Post by Zechs on Feb 7, 2017 19:16:19 GMT -6
To Zechs: Chrono Trigger for PS1, a good port? If you don't count the stupid loading times for accessing the menu, then yes. I loved the extras for it. After that, the retcon to be directly linked to Chrono Cross irked me. Megaman X? Not a good remake? You sure? You should check Megaman: Maverick Hunter X. I got it, it's plain kickass. I prefer it so much more than Megaman: Powered Up. Never really tried Oddworld, besides a demo of Abe's Oddyssey (briefly). I can't say much about it. As for Earthworm Jim, it's really a loss. I loved the second, which I still got the cartridge of for Super Nintendo. For Chrono Trigger, I was counting extras (including animations) as well as DS port. Not solely PSX port. Many SNES to PSX ports suffered load issues. Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre had similar issues. I own both original X and remake MHX. Given that, the remake is still the lesser version. I won't bother with the cell phone "remake". Remake is slower and less responsive, more pop take to the music (preference opinion), with difference of outcome triggers when concerning Vile fights (that used to require X to be defeated). As well as artistic sequence and art style (Vile jumps out of plane, not just falls after it goes by. Less liking to the more chibi aimed style, not exactly chibi but more influenced). I could go on. I'm not saying it is bad, I'm just saying it lacks charm and care the original had. The original had pizaz that lacked as soon as X2. Oddworld was fantastic either way. Not much discrepancy with response. The team maintained the care they had when rebuilding the new version. Earthworm Jim... Even an interview with the surviving co-creator said Gameloft did a bad job... |
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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 7, 2017 21:27:49 GMT -6
To Zechs: Chrono Trigger for PS1, a good port? If you don't count the stupid loading times for accessing the menu, then yes. I loved the extras for it. After that, the retcon to be directly linked to Chrono Cross irked me. Megaman X? Not a good remake? You sure? You should check Megaman: Maverick Hunter X. I got it, it's plain kickass. I prefer it so much more than Megaman: Powered Up. Never really tried Oddworld, besides a demo of Abe's Oddyssey (briefly). I can't say much about it. As for Earthworm Jim, it's really a loss. I loved the second, which I still got the cartridge of for Super Nintendo. For Chrono Trigger, I was counting extras (including animations) as well as DS port. Not solely PSX port. Many SNES to PSX ports suffered load issues. Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre had similar issues. I own both original X and remake MHX. Given that, the remake is still the lesser version. I won't bother with the cell phone "remake". Remake is slower and less responsive, more pop take to the music (preference opinion), with difference of outcome triggers when concerning Vile fights (that used to require X to be defeated). As well as artistic sequence and art style (Vile jumps out of plane, not just falls after it goes by. Less liking to the more chibi aimed style, not exactly chibi but more influenced). I could go on. I'm not saying it is bad, I'm just saying it lacks charm and care the original had. The original had pizaz that lacked as soon as X2. Oddworld was fantastic either way. Not much discrepancy with response. The team maintained the care they had when rebuilding the new version. Earthworm Jim... Even an interview with the surviving co-creator said Gameloft did a bad job... I never owned a DS so I can't talk about that version of CT (I think I tried it a little)... The dual screen feature was a bold choice though. Ah, but of course loading issues. Being on disc, the console got to search for the very precise data (loading times with special screens included)... It sure is negative, but you can store so much more on a disc. That is why the N64 didn't rule the market then (and too many first-party games). I liked the Gamecube (I own one). The loading times were so short and remakes were very detailed. Not so much disc capacity, though. I must admit I ended the game as X and didn't tackle the Vile mode much. I couldn't beat X on my few tries and moved on. Some changes were made for sure, that is why I'd say it wasn't a perfect conversion. That said, there are way worse choice when it comes to story modifications/retconning. The Day of Sigma bonus was extremely welcomed though. Chibi? Well, they used 2.5 models. It's closer to cel-shading... but chibi? Nah, chibi was used for Powered Up, though. Yes, I didn't enjoy X2 much, X3 had terrible phases, X4 was a true revival. X5 I liked a bit, X6 was plain torture... X7, no comment (just tried it a wee bit, I was not keen on playing it more than a few minutes) and X8 I didn't try. And yes... giving the license to other studios can lead to trainwrecks... This is why I value online reviews so much. It's really a blind dive sometimes, especially when it comes to movie tie-ins (but then it's off-topic). I choose my remakes carefully in th at regard. |
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Post by Zechs on Feb 7, 2017 22:56:29 GMT -6
For Chrono, the DS felt better than PSX. No animation sequences but new dungeons and weapons and armor (typical SE port). Just handheld version is a 'take it or leave it's kind of thing.
Flash cartridges are far superior to disk support only exception is the Gamecube, of which I too still own. Fantastic device, but I digress.
For X, Day of Sigma was a great addition. The cinematics were good. Not as good as the original style that was used during the games advertising.
But X fighting Vile is just different. Vile mode sad fun, more difficult due to playability but it was treated as a stand alone with its own animations. Lots of set up for MHX 2 that never made it.
Also I mentioned it's art style being chibi like. Not exactly chibi. Bigger heads, arms and legs. Smaller torso. To emphasize the character on a smaller screen. It just didn't feel the same artistically when compared to a sprite counter part. I didn't really like Powered Up, beyond artstyle. Only a little bit is worth while for a returning fan. And I mean returning being older. Growing up with the franchise. I just had different expectations than what was delivered.
I liked the X series overall. But my favorites were X3, X5 and X6. With X8 right there. The others didn't have a whole lot going when compared to others. X2 was fun for what it was. X4 was a nice addition especially to the world. But X7 just hurt. And never finished Command Mission. I fear any remakes if done without care and charm...
There have been quite a number of remakes. I listed the 4 to emphasize my points of view on port/remake/rebuilt/reimagine. What titles could you list that are worthy of mention?
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Lestaroth
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Post by Lestaroth on Feb 7, 2017 23:27:48 GMT -6
For Chrono, the DS felt better than PSX. No animation sequences but new dungeons and weapons and armor (typical SE port). Just handheld version is a 'take it or leave it's kind of thing. Flash cartridges are far superior to disk support only exception is the Gamecube, of which I too still own. Fantastic device, but I digress. For X, Day of Sigma was a great addition. The cinematics were good. Not as good as the original style that was used during the games advertising. But X fighting Vile is just different. Vile mode sad fun, more difficult due to playability but it was treated as a stand alone with its own animations. Lots of set up for MHX 2 that never made it. Also I mentioned it's art style being chibi like. Not exactly chibi. Bigger heads, arms and legs. Smaller torso. To emphasize the character on a smaller screen. It just didn't feel the same artistically when compared to a sprite counter part. I didn't really like Powered Up, beyond artstyle. Only a little bit is worth while for a returning fan. And I mean returning being older. Growing up with the franchise. I just had different expectations than what was delivered. I liked the X series overall. But my favorites were X3, X5 and X6. With X8 right there. The others didn't have a whole lot going when compared to others. X2 was fun for what it was. X4 was a nice addition especially to the world. But X7 just hurt. And never finished Command Mission. I fear any remakes if done without care and charm... There have been quite a number of remakes. I listed the 4 to emphasize my points of view on port/remake/rebuilt/reimagine. What titles could you list that are worthy of mention? Ah yes, I had forgotten Nintendo uses flash cartridges now... That's pretty powerful. They're truly small and easy to lose, though. Like contact lenses, but quite more expensive. Game advertising? Dang, I missed that entirely. Ah, then it's deformed. Chibi is akin to Super Deformed, which focuses on cuteness. I don't think MHX is cute though. *grins* I didn't finish Command Mission either. I gained access to the final level, but I had to return to my home country back then (end of studies) so I never had the chance to try it. I'd need another copy to go for it. I'll go lazy on it, but I'd not trust Capcom anymore when it comes to remakes (they did announce they'd revive old franchises of theirs*). The same goes for companies of yore. But who knows, if that is successful? *After Mighty n°9 ended being a mixed bag to the world. Quite the timing. I would have said "Freaking finally!!" normally. Then they blew our minds by putting X in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. Old franchises to give a new life in? With what they did to Breath of Fire (BoF 6 precisely)? Ummm... I don't know. |
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