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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 13, 2016 22:21:36 GMT -6
Since we got plenty of time to burn until Bloodstained comes out, I thought it would be fun to replay all the Metroidvania games.
I started with Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow. While I'm old enough to have play super CV 4 as a kid, I didn't actually get into any of the Metroidvania games until AoS (best highschool graduation gift ever). I'm currently more than 50% through CotM. I've started some OoE (my favorite) Because replaying DoS reminded my of everything I felt OoE did better. Less grind, utility of using different weapons improved, magic being overall more useful, etc.
I plan on going through Portrait of Ruin, Harmony of Dissonance, and of course SotN. In fact, I've already played a little of it and I'm reminded of how overpowered you are in that game, right from the start. Basilard is ridiculous in SotN. lol
So I thought maybe I could get others on this forum replaying the series with me and sharing their thoughts on the games.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 14, 2016 16:40:01 GMT -6
Been thinking picking up Aria of Sorrow again. Dawn of Sorrow might be hard though, since I lack the system needed to actually play it. Never had the chance. Which one is better? Same goes with Portrait of Ruin. Harmony of Despair is something I never heard off, so this was kind of cool to read about when I googled it. Do not have the systems to play it either though.
Symphony of the Night have been played so much, I won't go back to that any time soon.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 14, 2016 17:33:08 GMT -6
Sorry about that. I used the wrong name. Harmony of Despair is the multiplayer castlevania that came out on xbox 360 and ps3. I meant harmony of dissonance, which is Iga's homage to SotN on GBA. The music sounds like its from the gameboy but otherwise a pretty good game.
Nowadays, the DS (and even the PS2) emulator will run on a $300 bottom barrel computer. Funny how fast computer technology advances.
So I'll just do a quick run down of the Igavanias for anyone who has the same questions:
PS: SotN - The first and many say the best. Honestly, its aged but still fun to run through. Great soundtrack. Various stuff from unbalanced weapons to having a SHIELD just trivializes any difficulty. The lack of difficulty kind of makes it a little boring to replay for challenge runs but still worth playthrough at least once.
GBA - (they are all kind of short, why I don't know):
Circle of the Moon - Technically not an Igavania (Iga did not work on it), but still has the basic elements. Known for being harder than most Igavania games (how do I heal in this game?!) and being non-canon until Iga made it canon with the PoR timeline. Has a fun magic system that is used to do everything from boost stats to create elemental weapons. Criticized for poor graphics but the artwork is still decent.
Harmony of Dissonance - Iga tries to recreate the magic of SotN on the GBA and makes some mistakes. Criticized for the terrible sound quality of the music. Possibly even easier than SotN. lol In this game, you can upgrade your whip as well as cast magic through your sub weapons. Exploration is still fun though.
Aria of Sorrow - The best of the three. You can capture demon souls in order to use their powers. Fantastic. All the elements that made SotN great. Awesome soundtrack, visuals, fun story. Notable improvement to boss fights. Only down side is that its short. My recent run through hard mode was just 6 hours and it could even be shorter if I didn't grind for some souls I didn't end up using. If your new to the game it will take longer to beat. Getting all the souls will about double the play time.
DS games - (the best of the Igavanias IMHO)
Dawn of Sorrow - Sequel to AoS. Big improvement to graphics, ok story. The biggest improvement is in the size of the game. Iga really listened to fans of AoS and made the castle bigger. Hurray! Julius mode is improved with 3 characters to use. You can craft weapons with souls but I find the soul drop rate too low. Its probably best to stick to one weapon type(Golden Axe) to avoid grinding, especially if your going for the chaos ring (since you don't want to use boss souls till you get that ring).
Portrait of Ruin - Most experimental Iga game because this time you control two characters at once. Your able to switch between them on the fly just like Julius mode from DoS. One is a fighter and the other a mage. Its criticized because the maps are rather simplistic and the graphics are the most cartoony of the Iga games. However, its still a very fun game to play and has a pretty good story. The soundtrack is fun and upbeat as well. It also has decent challenge, including a level 1 hard mode.
Order of Ecclesia - My favorite. Iga has said in interviews that he made the first two DS games easy because of complaints his games were too hard. This time he listened to the hardcore fans and made this game hard. Normal mode is like the hard mode of AoS/DoS. Its still not hard but you might actually have to use potions (OMG). Hard mode is a decent challenge. Level 1 hard mode is a nightmare. lol The Glyph system is a refinement of the souls system from AoS/DoS. Now, all weapons and spells are Glyphs. Its notable that this game made making use of many weapons/spells necessary. Tough enemies have resistances to certain damage types so switching weapons is just necessary. Luckily you can switch between 3 set ups so its easy to switch between melee and magic on the fly. Also, has a solo female protagonist - not a co-protagonist. A solo female protagonist. The last time that happened in a castlevania is a game thats not canon. (CV legends) lol
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Post by Galamoth on Dec 14, 2016 17:42:09 GMT -6
To be honest? My very first time playing and completing Symphony of the Night was back in 2006. (Though I do remember my older brother playing this game back in '97 & '98.) I've always been more familiar with the handheld titles and Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse. I guess that's why I found Symphony of the Night to be relatively easy when I first played it. ^ (Speaking of SotN, though... I just recently completed a Luck Mode playthrough. I appreciate the extra challenge that comes from severely reducing Alucard's beginning stats, and making it much less tedious to get enemies to drop rare items.) I find myself constantly going back to playing all of the handheld titles (happy to say that I own a copy of every single Metroidvania title in the Castlevania series). For some reason, I like to play them all in chronological order, related to their places in the official timeline (Harmony of Dissonance is first, and Dawn of Sorrow is the last). I will also say that Aria of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia are both my absolute favorites.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 14, 2016 18:30:53 GMT -6
Small correction to wissenschaft's breakdown, the Portrait of Ruin timeline corrections made Bloodlines canon instead of Circle of the Moon. That game remains outside of the main story along with CV64, Legacy of Darkness and Legends.
One of these days I'm going to start again this "hard mode" mod of SotN I got a while back that makes the enemies tougher (def/HP) and nerfs or removes certain weapons. There was more to it than that, can't remember all of the changes right off though...
I also want to revisit the DSvania games...basically all 3 of them, I guess lol. For different reasons.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 14, 2016 18:37:32 GMT -6
I thought I saw CotM on the timeline? www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/bonusmaterial4.htmIt is there. Circle of the Moon is listed in 1830. Is this not the official timeline or are the games without a summary still not cannon? Of course, bloodlines is official since PoR is in essence a sequel to bloodlines.
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Post by Galamoth on Dec 14, 2016 18:50:31 GMT -6
I thought I saw CotM on the timeline? www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/bonusmaterial4.htmIt is there. Circle of the Moon is listed in 1830. Is this not the official timeline or are the games without a summary still not cannon?Of course, bloodlines is official since PoR is in essence a sequel to bloodlines. That'll be a good question to ask IGA at some point. I was a bit confused that Order of Ecclesia wasn't on this timeline image, but then I realized this was released before 2008.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 14, 2016 19:11:54 GMT -6
There have been articles on various sites about the whole thing, but they're from 10 or so years ago so I can't link sources...Wikipedia and fan wikis still summarize them though, like what IGA is quoted as saying here: castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Koji_Igarashi"About Games Released In His Absence" I have that timeline poster that came with the PoR collector's set on my wall, actually. If you notice, the 64 games are there as well as CotM, but not Legends and he kind of outlines why here - Legends is completely out because it previously conflicted with the established timeline/story whereas those other games are considered non-canon side projects. He could have very well decided to leave them there as blank placeholders just out of respect for their directors and because they didn't necessarily harm what happened, but Legends could only be in or out, and it had to be out unfortunately. I think that if a year had been attributed to Judgment and that game was out at this time, it would have similarly just had its name up there and nothing else as with the 64s/CotM. Just kind of a offshoot "what if" deal like comics do that can exist without messing up the main story.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 14, 2016 19:17:45 GMT -6
Oh and well...about Legends, it was technically -possible- as the origin story for the series, but Lament of Innocence changed that. It's too bad, because Sonia was pretty cool. I never played the game myself.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 14, 2016 19:34:23 GMT -6
I suppose you could say they are on the timeline because their stories don't conflict with the other titles. So technically they are not canon but it doesn't matter if fans want to consider them canon.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 15, 2016 6:25:52 GMT -6
I think I need to play those GBA Castlevania games pretty soon. Thanks for the information! I appreciate it.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 15, 2016 8:57:00 GMT -6
I suppose you could say they are on the timeline because their stories don't conflict with the other titles. So technically they are not canon but it doesn't matter if fans want to consider them canon. Yeah, I think it can work to look at it that way. They're mostly inconsequential.
Now though it hardly matters
Is this still the timeline? Is it LoS'? Is there even still a "Castlevania" as we know it, will it be a new thing entirely? Will it be a thing period? It's all in Konami's...hands.
edit: Oh and would you be for renaming this "replaying Igavania" instead of Metroid-? I clicked on it figuring you were talking about that genre in a broad sense, and really 99% of those games are waaaay more Metroid than Vania.
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 15, 2016 9:45:29 GMT -6
Classicvania fan eh? I didn't want to called it Igavania because he didn't work on CotM.
But sure, fine. As long as it doesn't confused anyone.
You'll have to excuse me but when I think of Castlevania I think of the Iga games. The classics are fun but nowhere near as awesome for me. And I grew up playing Super CV 4.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 15, 2016 10:02:30 GMT -6
Oh, it's not that I'm more of a classicvania fan than IGA's style, more that "Metroidvania" more commonly means like any game made that scrolls to the side and has some/any RPG elements.
Take a look at Enkeria Gin's "Metroidvania on GoG/Steam" thread in this forum for example. Almost all of those are very Metroid and not very Castlevania/Igavania. Like, nearly 0% even have an inventory screen let alone somewhat of a focus on weapon/item/ability collection. There's often like a skill tree for level-up points, combo systems and significantly more of a linear experience a lot of the time (all of these things being very un-Castlevania).
I like classic/IGA style almost evenly, but SotN probably still takes top "favorite" spot with me feeling like OoE is objectively a stronger game by design. CV3 and Rondo on the other hand are traditional masterpieces. I don't even really like CV4 that much lol
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Post by wissenschaft on Dec 15, 2016 10:18:54 GMT -6
But but, 8 directional attacks? HERESY!
Kind agree, that CV3 and Rondo were better games overall but shhhh, tell no one.
When I think Metrovania, I think a game that has a map to explore where you need to collect items to reach new areas. I think the thread your talking about is using the Metroidvania term a little to loosely but thats because there just aren't many games like Igavania.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 15, 2016 10:54:22 GMT -6
Did you see my rant I put up in that thread you commented on the 8-way attacks? heheh
The way that Enkeria's thread uses the term is the norm, though. People have even called games like Indivisible a Metroidvania.
oh actually it's on the game's Wikipedia page lol, the "gameplay" is one sentence en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indivisible_(video_game)
Granted, the game does indeed have progression by discovering abilities, but the association leads people to call it "a Metroidvania". What is Metroidvania? What ISN'T??? lol. Guess it's a miserable little pile of secrets! #overusedmemequote
edit: So anyway, I think that's why the "Igavania" term is necessitated. "Metroidvania" used to be what we called his games only as opposed to classicvania (or at least in my case anyway), but now it's like...any side scroller you can get stuff in. The side scrolling genre itself is so unusual now ( ) that any related terms can kind of lump them together as the same thing.
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Post by Redogan on Dec 15, 2016 21:10:36 GMT -6
There's a lot of Castlevania being played in my household.
We started a few months ago. (By "we", I mean me, and my two sons.) I have replayed (or am currently playing):
-Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (Wii U VC) -- got the Chaos Ring and am running through a NG+. -Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (Wii U VC) -- The backgrounds in this game are pretty great. I find myself looking at them more on subsequent playthroughs. I like that you can forward/back dash straight from the get-go. Music is pretty great as well. -Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (Wii U VC) -- about 80% of the way through. This game feels weird when you play it. The gravity of the main character feels off. He falls too fast or something. I've been abusing the card glitch to use whatever powers I want. -Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (DS game played on 3DS XL) -- This game has been missing from my collection for almost two years. I still can't find it. It is here somewhere, but I can't find it. I bought a new copy on Amazon for $22. I'll be watching this one closely so it doesn't go missing. -- I've gone through the first portrait and explored a bit of the main castle afterwards. Not to the second portrait yet. Just met Death.
My oldest son has been playing: -Castlevania: The Lecarde Chronicles (PC) -- He is pretty far in. The game has a lot of throwbacks to other classic games in the series. Remixed music, etc. -Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth (Wii VC) -- He played through and took various paths. Got a Game Over about 3/4 of the way through the first time, but then beat it on his second go. He had played it before, but it had been a while. -Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (Wii VC) -- He forgot to put in Help Me for the name. He ended up giving up before he got to Sypha's stage. smh.
My other son has been playing: -Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (Wii U VC) -- He managed to get the Chaos Ring and beat the game. (Thanks to restore points.) -Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS3 download) -- He isn't finished yet. Currently in the Inverted Castle--hasn't quite made it to Galamoth (he doesn't have the Beryl Circlet...hehehe).
Plus we all watched some No Damage Boss runs for various CV games. Ah, good times.
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Post by Galamoth on Dec 15, 2016 22:32:26 GMT -6
There's a lot of Castlevania being played in my household. We started a few months ago. (By "we", I mean me, and my two sons.) I have replayed (or am currently playing): - Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (Wii U VC) -- got the Chaos Ring and am running through a NG+. - Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (Wii U VC) -- The backgrounds in this game are pretty great. I find myself looking at them more on subsequent playthroughs. I like that you can forward/back dash straight from the get-go. Music is pretty great as well. - Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (Wii U VC) -- about 80% of the way through. This game feels weird when you play it. The gravity of the main character feels off. He falls too fast or something. I've been abusing the card glitch to use whatever powers I want. - Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (DS game played on 3DS XL) -- This game has been missing from my collection for almost two years. I still can't find it. It is here somewhere, but I can't find it. I bought a new copy on Amazon for $22. I'll be watching this one closely so it doesn't go missing. -- I've gone through the first portrait and explored a bit of the main castle afterwards. Not to the second portrait yet. Just met Death. My oldest son has been playing: - Castlevania: The Lecarde Chronicles (PC) -- He is pretty far in. The game has a lot of throwbacks to other classic games in the series. Remixed music, etc. - Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth (Wii VC) -- He played through and took various paths. Got a Game Over about 3/4 of the way through the first time, but then beat it on his second go. He had played it before, but it had been a while. - Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (Wii VC) -- He forgot to put in Help Me for the name. He ended up giving up before he got to Sypha's stage. smh. My other son has been playing: - Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (Wii U VC) -- He managed to get the Chaos Ring and beat the game. (Thanks to restore points.) - Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS3 download) -- He isn't finished yet. Currently in the Inverted Castle-- hasn't quite made it to Galamoth (he doesn't have the Beryl Circlet...hehehe).Plus we all watched some No Damage Boss runs for various CV games. Ah, good times. Good Luck to your other son.
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Post by Redogan on Dec 16, 2016 10:05:37 GMT -6
Thought that might spawn a reply from Galamoth! I've told him of the Beryl Circlet's existence, but he has no clue where to get it. Should I tell him? Or have him keep looking? EDIT: He's pretty thorough, so he'll find it eventually.
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 16, 2016 11:03:39 GMT -6
Thought that might spawn a reply from Galamoth! I've told him of the Beryl Circlet's existence, but he has no clue where to get it. Should I tell him? Or have him keep looking? EDIT: He's pretty thorough, so he'll find it eventually. Let him find it by himself, it's rewarding that way
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