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Post by Kitti_W on Jul 28, 2016 6:36:27 GMT -6
If Bloodstained is a huge success and Bloodstained 2 is confirmed to be backed by big publisher, thus does not need to use Kickstarter anymore. Do you still want it to use Kickstarter? So that you can enjoy being a backer.
My personal opinion:
For me, 2015-2017 will be remembered as special 2 years of my life.
- I get to be a backer of Bloodstained. My name will appear in game credits. - IGA tell me every month on what he's been up to. The tradeshow he went, Bloodstained development progress, etc. - Hanging around this forum talking about Igavania stuf.
You just don't get this kind of chance often.
Some may not like the release delay when it happens, but if it does get delayed then that's fine by me because I can continue to be a backer for a bit longer. =)
Back on topic. I'd like to see how this poll turns out.
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Post by BalancedHydra on Jul 28, 2016 6:55:10 GMT -6
Kickstarter is nice if you want to get things started or something different. Using KS to fully fund sequels feels dubious to me. If the game is popular enough to warrant a sequel, It will show in revenue. I supposed that you can us KS to supplement a work that is already in progress. Harebrained Schemes did such with Shadowrun Hong Kong. They had the base game in the works but went to KS to get more money to add more stuff.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 28, 2016 9:07:17 GMT -6
That's going to be touchy. If the game is the big success we all hope is: then the average gamer will ask "wait didnt the first one do really well? Why do they need to go back to Kickstarter?"
If they do I agree that it should/will likely be because they just want some funding for extra features.
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Post by Ramzo Wily on Jul 28, 2016 9:07:45 GMT -6
I say yes because
1)It gives them a chance to prove sustained interest in the series 2)It allows the creator better control over their IP so they don't risk having to give up too much to a big publisher (a big publisher may be willing to pick up the sequel, but might also want too much say in what goes into it). 3)It's a unique opportunity for the creator to interact with fans and get feedback and thoughts that go far beyond just beta testing 4)It's a unique opportunity for fans to develop unique content for the game (in-game portrait, create your own room, etc, etc) 5)And lastly, as the Vampire Hunter D kickstarter running right now has pointed out to me, it's a unique opportunity to develop special collector's items and kits. As a backer, I get a collectors box and poster and t-shirt and pins and keychain and lapel pin and artbook and strategy guide (etc, etc) that aren't going to be available outside of the kickstarter, and I think that's pretty darn cool.
Basically, there's a lot of reasons to do a kickstarter other than just securing funding, and in fact when a game is being developed by a company and not just 1 or 2 people, there's pretty much no way the kickstarter is going to cover the funds for the entire game. So I say: bring it!
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 28, 2016 10:04:34 GMT -6
If it helps them make a better game with better funding then why not? You know a publisher won't give them the funds they got for this alone. Plus it gives us insight into the production, they get insight from us, and we get goodies. I don't see how anyone could get annoyed by doing another kickstarter. This isn't a AAA game in the normal sense... ( HOLLYWOOD PRODUCTION type product).
So this is the future of the indie space, instead of having to rely on very outdated visuals they can start using kickstarter to get the visuals and game up to par with modern next gen games but in an indie gameplay style.
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Post by XombieMike on Jul 28, 2016 10:57:55 GMT -6
I don't want them to have to depend on it, but I would back a second one. I don't think it would raise anywhere close to what it did the first time around. I'm not paying hundreds of dollars every couple of years for a new Bloodstained like I have for the first one. That's simply not within my ability, and I can assume the same for the vast majority.
I would look at a Bloodstained 2 Kickstarter as a pre order with goodies. I believe they could continue making a series of games that get better and better with less funding than the first. The first venture poses the most challenge. It's success post launch will prove it's sustainability.
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 28, 2016 13:36:28 GMT -6
Kickstarter is nice if you want to get things started or something different. Using KS to fully fund sequels feels dubious to me. If the game is popular enough to warrant a sequel, It will show in revenue. I supposed that you can us KS to supplement a work that is already in progress. Harebrained Schemes did such with Shadowrun Hong Kong. They had the base game in the works but went to KS to get more money to add more stuff. I definitely think that Kickstarter has its pros though. Sure the revenue should suffice enough with the funds necessary to make another, but Kickstarter is a lot more...idk. I feel that with Kickstarter the crowd and the fans are a larger part of it, and it just really brings us together as a community. Without the Bloodstained Kickstarter, I'm sure this forum probably wouldn't even exist, and I wouldn't have been able to meet the great people that I've met on the forum. Plus, some other pros of Kickstarter is that you CAN get more funds to do MORE things with the game, as you stated above. Plus seeing all of the side-goals of the Kickstarter, seeing their progression, things you've 'unlocked', ETC. I find to be a very cool idea. It's sorta like a...we did this, so now THIS feature is guaranteed to be in the finished product. And being able to do cool crap like have your name a part of the credits, or have your doggie be forever memorialized in a painting of the game? Like that's really freaking cool to me. I hope that if IGA has more work in the future, he goes through Kickstarter again. Not likely, but it's something I would personally want. Especially since I was never able to be a part of the Kickstarter for Bloodstained. All I was able to do when I found out was the dumb slacker backer ahaha.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 28, 2016 13:53:40 GMT -6
No because Kickstarter is meant to kick start things, not kick start something and then keep on kicking it to death. If it's successful, it'll naturally get a sequel which will be funded by the publisher. Bloodstained was only kickstarted to gauge interest in the gameplay style.
What could be kickstarted, if they really wanted to, would be an anime or something. But definitely not a sequel.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jul 28, 2016 13:58:53 GMT -6
This is very controversal, i have both feelings of wanting that to happen and not. Right now, i think it would be a cool idea, but it would need to be different, i think, to not sound like they are just getting money they already have to do the game. Let me explain why i think that would be a good idea . And later on, i will explain how i think it could be.
WHY BLOODSTAINED 2 NEEDS A KICKSTARTER?
Two main reasons: money and community. IGA said on a interview that this is the BIGGEST BUDGET he ever had on his entire life to do a game. The budget to do a game depends on a lot of factors, and we all know that the company-whose-name-shall-not-be-mentioned never supported the series THAT much, because they have other things in mind, like the money-grabbing pachinkos and such. Do you guys think that IGA, Inti Creates, the publisher and the team WANT to put more than 5.5 million on the next Bloodstained? The game is still a niche thing, with a gameplay that is VERY outdated by nowadays standards. I don't think they would want to risk that much. Even if this game goes over-the-top on selling, that is a huge sum of money.
Also, many, even outside the gaming circles, agree that this was the most well-run and well administered kickstarter campaign of all time. I don't know if another one would reach 5.5 million, but i don't think it is impossible. If THIS COMMUNITY, right here, and all the others that are going to play the game, and the non-backers, really like it, they will want another with the same or more quality, the same or more content. It is hard, but not impossible.
HOW A BLOODSTAINED 2 KICKSTARTER COULD WORK?
Two main things: Promise of a BIGGER, BETTER game and another well-run campaign. To do a new kickstarter campaign, they will need to be honest and say it out loud: "we kinda have the funds for a game with the same quality and size of the first one. But we want to know if the community still supports a game like this AND we want to do it BIGGER and BETTER and we need your hard-earned cash for it. Hit the goal and we will do the game. Hit the stretch goals for more content than the first one!". And so, the campaign could start like the first one: $ 500.000 => We will know you guys supports a second Bloodstained 2 with the same quality and overall size of the first one! We promise around the same number of bosses, enemies, rooms and overral gameplay hours! $ 1.000.000 => IGa's Biggest Castle again! 2200+ rooms! $ 1.500.000 => 20 musics recorded with an orchestra! $ 2.000.000 => Improved graphics for low-end and high-end specs! And so on. (values are totally made up).
And, of course, the campaign must be REALLY WELL-RUN, like the first one was. IGA answering questions, updates all the time, achievments and fun things besides money-donations. "Let's make the greatest Kickstarter campaign again" type of thought.
I don't know if that would make the game reach 5.5 million again, but it could surely work, on my honest humble opinion.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jul 28, 2016 14:26:06 GMT -6
You also have to keep in mind the Screw You Factor as a certain Final Bosman put it, which played a huge part in the kickstarter campaign's success. MN9's was a screw you to Capcom, Bloodstained a screw you to Konami, and so on. A sequel won't have enough of that Screw You Factor, so it won't be as monumental of a success as the first one was.
And besides, if you want bonus items that backing kickstarter campaigns usually give you, they can always do preorder bonuses, or a Collector's Editon which is essentially the same thing.
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Post by Yän on Jul 28, 2016 15:25:38 GMT -6
I don't think that they have to abandon community involvement if they decide against Kickstarter. Sure, the campaign was a great rush of fun but I think that they could do something similar when announcing a sequel. Why shouldn't we as a community be able to extend this forum for a sequel if/when one is announced? Why shouldn't they be able to give us development updates if Kickstarter isn't involved? I think they could still be as open to feedback as they are right now even without Kickstarter. They would definitely need to work with Fangamer though since none of this would have been possible / so good without these guys.
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Post by Kitti_W on Jul 28, 2016 20:32:48 GMT -6
I don't think that they have to abandon community involvement if they decide against Kickstarter. Sure, the campaign was a great rush of fun but I think that they could do something similar when announcing a sequel. Why shouldn't we as a community be able to extend this forum for a sequel if/when one is announced? Why shouldn't they be able to give us development updates if Kickstarter isn't involved? I think they could still be as open to feedback as they are right now even without Kickstarter. They would definitely need to work with Fangamer though since none of this would have been possible / so good without these guys. Maybe they can use the same old Bloodstained: rotn kickstarter page to post monthly development updates for Bloodstained 2, 3, 4 and so on without paying any extra to Kickstarter. (lol)
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Post by Overlord on Jul 29, 2016 3:33:53 GMT -6
My hope is that Bloodstained does well enough so that they will have plenty of funds for a second game. I really don't like the idea of seeing them back on Kickstarter, but if that's the only way they end up being able to make a second game, I'd probably support it.
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Post by Olrox on Jul 29, 2016 9:57:52 GMT -6
No because Kickstarter is meant to kick start things, not kick start something and then keep on kicking it to death. If it's successful, it'll naturally get a sequel which will be funded by the publisher. Bloodstained was only kickstarted to gauge interest in the gameplay style. What could be kickstarted, if they really wanted to, would be an anime or something. But definitely not a sequel. Exactly this. If bloodstained 2 also got a kickstarter it would mean that the first didn't do well enough on it's own. I really want Bloodstained to be the first step for IGA to become self sustainable. I'll always be there to buy his games if he keeps up with his amazing games. If bloodstained does good then maybe IGA gets to do a sequel using 2D pixel art for the 3DS, but I really feel it shouldn't need another kickstarter.
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Post by Shax on Jul 30, 2016 6:45:41 GMT -6
Hmm....well, I personally don't think so. I mean, if it doesn't need to, why would it? That aside, I can't really say anything new that hasn't been said already though. Everyone has made a good point, especially the parts about this community being formed out it. You guys are pretty cool even though I barely interact with like half of you. But, I wouldn't mind supporting another Kickstarter or even buying a Collector's Edition if it comes down to it.
There is not a single doubt in my mind that Bloodstained will be a good game so it will all come down to marketing and networking. Hmm...maybe TV commercials showcasing the style of the game and its story would appeal to some of those familiar with that style of game. Getting online ads on Youtube, even though most people skip them....unless they're interested, might help. A stream might help. Oh, and Youtubers (Like Game Grumps) might help the marketing game as well, getting hundreds of thousands of views does help spread the word. Then there is networking which us, as fans, will do.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 30, 2016 9:38:31 GMT -6
I agree Bloodstained already has all the marketing it ever really needed: One of the most successful Kickstarters of all time, Streams, E3 coverage, and numerous Youtube channels like Game Grumps, the Super Best Friends and Jim Sterling all give the game coverage and they have tens of thousands if not HUNDREDS of thousands of subscribers. The best part is that aside from the obvious E3 slots, most of the PR has simply been fans using their clout to get the word out.
As for community involvement, well, we already have this very site as a platform for IGA and the team to update us and get feedback from us if/when a sequel begins production, yes? Isnt it feasible for a Community Manager (Be it Mana or someone else a few years from now) to make threads about important news? I also really want this game to do well enough that IGA doesnt HAVE to fall back on the fans every time he wants to make a new game.
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Post by ghalion on Jul 30, 2016 10:37:57 GMT -6
I think thats a terrible idea. There would instantly be angry fans comparing it to mighty no 9 in the bad ways rather than good. Igas newfound reputation would drop noiticeably, etc.
Bear in mind BS has funding from a producer as well that offered it based on ks results. They wont need that to prove customer interest if BS already has great success
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Post by Shax on Jul 30, 2016 13:01:18 GMT -6
I agree Bloodstained already has all the marketing it ever really needed: One of the most successful Kickstarters of all time, Streams, E3 coverage, and numerous Youtube channels like Game Grumps, the Super Best Friends and Jim Sterling all give the game coverage and they have tens of thousands if not HUNDREDS of thousands of subscribers. The best part is that aside from the obvious E3 slots, most of the PR has simply been fans using their clout to get the word out. As for community involvement, well, we already have this very site as a platform for IGA and the team to update us and get feedback from us if/when a sequel begins production, yes? Isnt it feasible for a Community Manager (Be it Mana or someone else a few years from now) to make threads about important news? I also really want this game to do well enough that IGA doesnt HAVE to fall back on the fans every time he wants to make a new game. True to all of those things, those are very good points by the way. But ads never hurt anyone as long as they're tasteful and memorable. People tend to forget things--A fact I know very well--an ad here or there never hurt anyone. Man...fans really are reliable aren't they? That is true and a very good point. Yeah, I agree.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 30, 2016 14:10:28 GMT -6
I agree Bloodstained already has all the marketing it ever really needed: One of the most successful Kickstarters of all time, Streams, E3 coverage, and numerous Youtube channels like Game Grumps, the Super Best Friends and Jim Sterling all give the game coverage and they have tens of thousands if not HUNDREDS of thousands of subscribers. The best part is that aside from the obvious E3 slots, most of the PR has simply been fans using their clout to get the word out. As for community involvement, well, we already have this very site as a platform for IGA and the team to update us and get feedback from us if/when a sequel begins production, yes? Isnt it feasible for a Community Manager (Be it Mana or someone else a few years from now) to make threads about important news? I also really want this game to do well enough that IGA doesnt HAVE to fall back on the fans every time he wants to make a new game. True to all of those things, those are very good points by the way. But ads never hurt anyone as long as they're tasteful and memorable. People tend to forget things--A fact I know very well--an ad here or there never hurt anyone. Man...fans really are reliable aren't they? That is true and a very good point. Yeah, I agree. Oh if they can get a TV ad going more power to them, never hurts, though plenty of channels like the Grumps and Zaibatsu will more than likely do full LP's on release for hype (Matt and Liam of the SBF have already said they will do a blind LP in fact), and other places like Sterling's site will have reviews. I cant see the game fading. If it does well, it will be a grand example of a Kickstarter done well, and if it somehow fails...well...Mighty Number 9 is a good look at what would happen to Bloodstained. Even moreso actually, since Bloodstaiend got even MORE funding than MN9 did.
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Post by endarion on Aug 2, 2016 8:02:44 GMT -6
i would prefer kickstarter again for a simple reason, if there is a big pubblisher that also means there is someone there to tell Iga what he can and can't do, instead of him doing what he want to do
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