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Post by JeffCross on Jul 7, 2016 2:22:16 GMT -6
I don't know about the son/daughter thing. But time playing into the "other" castle... I don't think I thought of that lol, awesome.
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Post by alexandernigth on Jul 10, 2016 9:33:32 GMT -6
I'll prefer a deteriorate castle in the hell than a inverted castle...
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Post by saberwolf94 on Jul 10, 2016 10:05:08 GMT -6
It could go either way. Even if it doesn't have as many rooms as SOTN when factoring the inverted castle there are other factors like the size and length of each room could be bigger for Bloodstained. Or maybe there will be a few areas outside of the castle will also add up to the size of the game. My gut is telling me that it will ultimately be bigger than SOTN and even if it isn't 1600 rooms is still big, plus there's all the additional features many of which SOTN didn't have in that era.
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Post by Shax on Jul 10, 2016 10:18:39 GMT -6
I don't mind one way or another. An inverted castle is just an upside-down castle, right? It might be something that is easily done but I think it is really the developers call on if its included or not. I, myself, am completely satisfied with the 1,600+ rooms and the Rouge-like Dungeons
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 10, 2016 10:44:50 GMT -6
I honestly don't want an Inverted castle. Between the inverted Castle from SOTN and the mirror Castles in Harmony of Dissonance and the slightly altered Portraits in PoR We've seen IGA and crew re-use assets multiple times to pad out the length of the game. I just want one big intricate 1600 room castle, especially since we're already getting our "clever asset re-use" in the Classic and Roguelike modes.
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Post by asterra on Jul 10, 2016 13:02:42 GMT -6
This bears repeating. Sticking with 1600 (well, <1800) rooms for the game proper would technically be failing a Kickstarter goal. Meanwhile, most fans will probably be expecting pretty much this kind of inverted-castle non-ending, so if people get to the end of the game and discover that's really that, there will be much disappointment.
I think the best case scenario would be to make the inverted component (or equivalent) only accessible from a hard difficulty and/or New Game+. Second best case would be to have the inverted component be staggered content, though that would compromise any chance that it is integral to the game's plot and hypothetical best ending.
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Post by kronfarfar on Jul 10, 2016 13:14:20 GMT -6
IGA did say that the first playthrough of Bloodstained should take about 10h. Looking at this link Dawn of Sorrow takes 11-15h to complete. howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=1580 So the 10h for Bloodstained confuses me.
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 10, 2016 18:33:13 GMT -6
IGA did say that the first playthrough of Bloodstained should take about 10h. Looking at this link Dawn of Sorrow takes 11-15h to complete. howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=1580 So the 10h for Bloodstained confuses me. I'm guessing the 10h thing is if you're a casual player who doesn't give two f*cks about completionist items, or shards or alchemy or anything like that. Someone who goes through the game without attempting to find hidden walls or optional bosses. You know, someone who's never played an IGAvania before. :p
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 10, 2016 18:53:42 GMT -6
IGA did say that the first playthrough of Bloodstained should take about 10h. Looking at this link Dawn of Sorrow takes 11-15h to complete. howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=1580 So the 10h for Bloodstained confuses me. I'm guessing the 10h thing is if you're a casual player who doesn't give two f*cks about completionist items, or shards or alchemy or anything like that. Someone who goes through the game without attempting to find hidden walls or optional bosses. You know, someone who's never played an IGAvania before. ...or a sad attempt at speed running
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jul 11, 2016 7:59:01 GMT -6
If you look at the other games, 10h is a bit more than the average completion time for each...assuming any sort of accuracy. Not exactly the most scientific of measurements, here...
But anyway, with Bloodstained, since the castle will be assumedly so much larger than Dawn's, even if the player isn't trying to extend their playthrough with collection, that is going to happen regardless and lengthen the game. This is due even more so because there's a new system in place on top of the existing Soul system equivalent (shards) and standard drops/map filling, which is the new alchemy and crafting systems we will be playing with. These, with IGA's largest castle ever, will make for an adventure that's suitably lengthy, I think...and then we have more playable characters and 10 extra modes coming down the line. I wouldn't be worried!
IGA probably referenced the 10h a while back as an average estimate of his previous games. That may have even been before this particular stretch goal was met, perhaps? Can't recall the source of the quote. Regardless, we should be looking at quite a bit of game. I wouldn't want to extend it much more, rather instead keep a potential series going.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 11, 2016 9:02:20 GMT -6
If you look at the other games, 10h is a bit more than the average completion time for each...assuming any sort of accuracy. Not exactly the most scientific of measurements, here... But anyway, with Bloodstained, since the castle will be assumedly so much larger than Dawn's, even if the player isn't trying to extend their playthrough with collection, that is going to happen regardless and lengthen the game. This is due even more so because there's a new system in place on top of the existing Soul system equivalent (shards) and standard drops/map filling, which is the new alchemy and crafting systems we will be playing with. These, with IGA's largest castle ever, will make for an adventure that's suitably lengthy, I think...and then we have more playable characters and 10 extra modes coming down the line. I wouldn't be worried! IGA probably referenced the 10h a while back as an average estimate of his previous games. That may have even been before this particular stretch goal was met, perhaps? Can't recall the source of the quote. Regardless, we should be looking at quite a bit of game. I wouldn't want to extend it much more, rather instead keep a potential series going. I think I asked this earlier but didn't get a response. Has there been any mention of MORE gear than previous Igavania games? ( more weapons to collect, more armor, more scarfs) If they're going for a bigger castle, you'd assume there'd be more to find right?
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Post by Overlord on Jul 11, 2016 10:12:13 GMT -6
If you look at the other games, 10h is a bit more than the average completion time for each...assuming any sort of accuracy. Not exactly the most scientific of measurements, here... But anyway, with Bloodstained, since the castle will be assumedly so much larger than Dawn's, even if the player isn't trying to extend their playthrough with collection, that is going to happen regardless and lengthen the game. This is due even more so because there's a new system in place on top of the existing Soul system equivalent (shards) and standard drops/map filling, which is the new alchemy and crafting systems we will be playing with. These, with IGA's largest castle ever, will make for an adventure that's suitably lengthy, I think...and then we have more playable characters and 10 extra modes coming down the line. I wouldn't be worried! IGA probably referenced the 10h a while back as an average estimate of his previous games. That may have even been before this particular stretch goal was met, perhaps? Can't recall the source of the quote. Regardless, we should be looking at quite a bit of game. I wouldn't want to extend it much more, rather instead keep a potential series going. I think I asked this earlier but didn't get a response. Has there been any mention of MORE gear than previous Igavania games? ( more weapons to collect, more armor, more scarfs) If they're going for a bigger castle, you'd assume there'd be more to find right? I haven't seen any talk at all concerning that part of the game. I'm definitely hoping there will be more gear than usual though. Even if the story really does end up taking only ten hours, hopefully the platinum trophy (aka all achievements) is something that will take a lot longer.
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Post by asterra on Jul 11, 2016 14:39:48 GMT -6
Has there been any mention of MORE gear than previous Igavania games? ( more weapons to collect, more armor, more scarfs) If they're going for a bigger castle, you'd assume there'd be more to find right? If there isn't considerably more - in proportion with the difference in castle size, for example, which would be nearly double - I'll be disappointed. The demo is possibly missing some things that should be in the final game, but what it presents us leaves room for worry: - Two weapons and two armors were available, both coming from chests.
- Enemies didn't drop any weapons or armor.
- Enemies didn't drop alchemy materials.
- The only enemy who was itemized was Dullhammer, and he had 1 item.
My ultimate worry here is that enemies will end up with basically just a shard and a single item. I want all enemies to have a common and rare drop at least, in addition to a shard if they have one. I'd also prefer it if their alchemy drops (regardless of how rare) were kept separate from their item drops, meaning if they have an alchemy drop, it doesn't take the spot of their common/rare drop. Other things that would be nice: - Better rarity than 1 in 100. That seems to be the hard limit on drop rarity (Amy shard). Raise it, so that players find they can't necessarily rely on the effective guarantee of drops.
- A range of effectiveness for weapons and armor, so that the item the player discovers is not necessarily automatically the best iteration. (If clutter is an issue, perhaps make the game only maintain the best version of an item the player finds.)
- On New Game+ and/or nightmare mode, make many items have the "+1" designation a-la Harmony of Despair.
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Post by JeffCross on Jul 11, 2016 14:50:49 GMT -6
Has there been any mention of MORE gear than previous Igavania games? ( more weapons to collect, more armor, more scarfs) If they're going for a bigger castle, you'd assume there'd be more to find right? If there isn't considerably more - in proportion with the difference in castle size, for example, which would be nearly double - I'll be disappointed. The demo is possibly missing some things that should be in the final game, but what it presents us leaves room for worry: - Two weapons and two armors were available, both coming from chests.
- Enemies didn't drop any weapons or armor.
- Enemies didn't drop alchemy materials.
- The only enemy who was itemized was Dullhammer, and he had 1 item.
My ultimate worry here is that enemies will end up with basically just a shard and a single item. I want all enemies to have a common and rare drop at least, in addition to a shard if they have one. I'd also prefer it if their alchemy drops (regardless of how rare) were kept separate from their item drops, meaning if they have an alchemy drop, it doesn't take the spot of their common/rare drop. Other things that would be nice: - Better rarity than 1 in 100. That seems to be the hard limit on drop rarity (Amy shard). Raise it, so that players find they can't necessarily rely on the effective guarantee of drops.
- A range of effectiveness for weapons and armor, so that the item the player discovers is not necessarily automatically the best iteration. (If clutter is an issue, perhaps make the game only maintain the best version of an item the player finds.)
- On New Game+ and/or nightmare mode, make many items have the "+1" designation a-la Harmony of Despair.
the Amy also drops an item it is ether I believe... That is my worry too, but I don't think Iga will leave us hanging like that... especially since he intends to have a alchemy based crafting system
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Post by asterra on Jul 11, 2016 15:28:30 GMT -6
That is my worry too, but I don't think Iga will leave us hanging like that... especially since he intends to have a alchemy based crafting system Well, again, part of my worry is that the alchemy ingredients will end up taking up item drop spots that would have been much more interesting as a traditional "common piece of crap armor" & "rare as heck sword". Especially in the nightmare scenario where enemies persist in having only one item, if even that. Why worry? Because there have been cases where Igavania enemies were poorly itemized. I hold up Symphony of the Night as the absolute gold standard in this comparison, but I cannot shake the worry that the need to create Bloodstained completely from scratch will cause the devs to look to the comparative lazy precedent set in other Igavania games as an excuse to be lazy themselves.
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Post by Doom Saber on Jul 12, 2016 2:25:10 GMT -6
With the stretch goals being a prequel and Bloodstained taking the Shovel Knight approach in adding content to the game after release (I forgot where I have read that at), I wonder how long the prequel will be and if they add more content to the game, how many more rooms we will be getting.
One thing I hope would be implemented are the quests from Order of Ecclesia. While these areas felt more like mini areas of a castle due to the design of them, I loved these sections because it reminded me of the old school Castlevania games with the ceilingless open areas. That said, I loved the demo pirate ship stage since it felt like a Rondo of Blood stage - being on a ship helps with the Rondo reference. I hope in the final game, it is a separate section rather than being a part of the castle. My feeling is that is could an intro level like how one of the n64 games starts off on a raft. Seeing how the castle is surrounded by water, perhaps Miriam was ambushed by monsters while taking a ship to get to the castle.
If so, I hope the final game or the prequel starts off on Miriam's travel to the castle to make the game feel longer. As a child, I loved how Super Castlevania 4 started off at the Castro's gate, which was very far from the castle. By the time I felt that the game was near the end, I entered the castle, which was halfway through the game. Inside of an inverted, I would like a long journey to the castle with a more linear feel like the classic Castlevania stages or the demo pirate ship. Having quest stages like in Order of Ecclesia where you would replay the sections for different quests would be a great way to add replay value to the game.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 12, 2016 3:29:36 GMT -6
With the stretch goals being a prequel and Bloodstained taking the Shovel Knight approach in adding content to the game after release (I forgot where I have read that at), I wonder how long the prequel will be and if they add more content to the game, how many more rooms we will be getting. One thing I hope would be implemented are the quests from Order of Ecclesia. While these areas felt more like mini areas of a castle due to the design of them, I loved these sections because it reminded me of the old school Castlevania games with the ceilingless open areas. That said, I loved the demo pirate ship stage since it felt like a Rondo of Blood stage - being on a ship helps with the Rondo reference. I hope in the final game, it is a separate section rather than being a part of the castle. My feeling is that is could an intro level like how one of the n64 games starts off on a raft. Seeing how the castle is surrounded by water, perhaps Miriam was ambushed by monsters while taking a ship to get to the castle. If so, I hope the final game or the prequel starts off on Miriam's travel to the castle to make the game feel longer. As a child, I loved how Super Castlevania 4 started off at the Castro's gate, which was very far from the castle. By the time I felt that the game was near the end, I entered the castle, which was halfway through the game. Inside of an inverted, I would like a long journey to the castle with a more linear feel like the classic Castlevania stages or the demo pirate ship. Having quest stages like in Order of Ecclesia where you would replay the sections for different quests would be a great way to add replay value to the game. Totally. I just hope more of the Bloodstained cast gets revealed, so we can potentially put that up as a topic for debate. Bloodstained: Quests?? :p
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jul 12, 2016 3:37:57 GMT -6
IGA probably referenced the 10h a while back as an average estimate of his previous games. That may have even been before this particular stretch goal was met, perhaps? Can't recall the source of the quote. Regardless, we should be looking at quite a bit of game. I wouldn't want to extend it much more, rather instead keep a potential series going. Years ago, when IGA left Konami and was talking about how to develop a game at a conference, he said that he estimate the overall dificulty of bosses by making the play test fight against a boss at a overral "normal" condition at that time of the game. The boss is considered good enough if the professional play tester can beat the boss without taking damage. I think when he said that 10h time frame, he is basing that on play testers. People capable of beating bosses without taking a single hit and that can beat the game fast and with a skilled gamplay. You can sure multiply that timeframe but 3 if you are talking about a "normal first time" player. Has there been any mention of MORE gear than previous Igavania games? ( more weapons to collect, more armor, more scarfs) If they're going for a bigger castle, you'd assume there'd be more to find right? IGA said on a interview that this game will be less equipment-dependant than Symphony of the Night. But even so, i think the number of equips will be higher, due to my answer below. My ultimate worry here is that enemies will end up with basically just a shard and a single item. I want all enemies to have a common and rare drop at least, in addition to a shard if they have one. I'd also prefer it if their alchemy drops (regardless of how rare) were kept separate from their item drops, meaning if they have an alchemy drop, it doesn't take the spot of their common/rare drop.
IGA has said in a interview that his current idea is that there will be five different kinds of drops, corresponding to different parts of an enemy, the heads, arms, and so on, and that even single monsters will have multiple drops. So, each monster would have at max five drops (probably head, arms, legs, body and shard), but not all of then will have all five. He never explained that idea very well, so, we don't know if each slot will have a drop corresponding to that (like arms dropping weapons), it is probably not. Some people (like me) assume he was talking about a general terms for drops. For instance, Amy is nothing more than a Head, so, it is probably that it only drops one thing (Head slot) and a shard. Dullahammer has arms, legs, body, shard, but has no Head. So, he maybe drops four itens. IGA also said that the general drop chance will be higher than most of his other games, because drop materials to forge and shards are a essential part of the gamplay and, as such, they can't be that hard to get. IGA also said that they wanted shards to be usable only after "maturing then", evolving then on some sort with alchemy. But we didn't see that on the demo, so maybe they gave up on that idea (He Said that the team wasn't happy with this, because it would be frustrating to get a power and not able to use it at the same time) or maybe they are re-working it.
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Wielder of Emptiness
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[TI0] ...an intellectual with no room for feelings...
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 12, 2016 3:42:52 GMT -6
IGA probably referenced the 10h a while back as an average estimate of his previous games. That may have even been before this particular stretch goal was met, perhaps? Can't recall the source of the quote. Regardless, we should be looking at quite a bit of game. I wouldn't want to extend it much more, rather instead keep a potential series going. Years ago, when IGA left Konami and was talking about how to develop a game at a conference, he said that he estimate the overall dificulty of bosses by making the play test fight against a boss at a overral "normal" condition at that time of the game. The boss is considered good enough if the professional play tester can beat the boss without taking damage. I think when he said that 10h time frame, he is basing that on play testers. People capable of beating bosses without taking a single hit and that can beat the game fast and with a skilled gamplay. You can sure multiply that timeframe but 3 if you are talking about a "normal first time" player. Has there been any mention of MORE gear than previous Igavania games? ( more weapons to collect, more armor, more scarfs) If they're going for a bigger castle, you'd assume there'd be more to find right? IGA said on a interview that this game will be less equipment-dependant than Symphony of the Night. But even so, i think the number of equips will be higher, due to my answer below. My ultimate worry here is that enemies will end up with basically just a shard and a single item. I want all enemies to have a common and rare drop at least, in addition to a shard if they have one. I'd also prefer it if their alchemy drops (regardless of how rare) were kept separate from their item drops, meaning if they have an alchemy drop, it doesn't take the spot of their common/rare drop.
IGA has said in a interview that his current idea is that there will be five different kinds of drops, corresponding to different parts of an enemy, the heads, arms, and so on, and that even single monsters will have multiple drops. So, each monster would have at max five drops (probably head, arms, legs, body and shard), but not all of then will have all five. He never explained that idea very well, so, we don't know if each slot will have a drop corresponding to that (like arms dropping weapons), it is probably not. Some people (like me) assume he was talking about a general terms for drops. For instance, Amy is nothing more than a Head, so, it is probably that it only drops one thing (Head slot) and a shard. Dullahammer has arms, legs, body, shard, but has no Head. So, he maybe drops four itens. IGA also said that the general drop chance will be higher than most of his other games, because drop materials to forge and shards are a essential part of the gamplay and, as such, they can't be that hard to get. IGA also said that they wanted shards to be usable only after "maturing then", evolving then on some sort with alchemy. But we didn't see that on the demo, so maybe they gave up on that idea (He Said that the team wasn't happy with this, because it would be frustrating to get a power and not able to use it at the same time) or maybe they are re-working it. OOOHHHH you're making me even more excited for this game, Pure Miriam. Why you gotta intensify my butterflies like dat?
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jul 12, 2016 3:53:12 GMT -6
OOOHHHH you're making me even more excited for this game, Pure Miriam . Why you gotta intensify my butterflies like dat? Haha Well, i basically read almost all interviews and such that IGA gives since early 2000's. I wasn't going to stop now. But yes, IGA said that. And he said even more. Another idea IGA has mentioned is for the drops to give different stat subeffects: for example, an enemy head drop will raise magic power, or a drop from an enemy leg/foot will raise movement speed. By using the different drop materials and the different stat subeffects, the player will be able to customize Miriam to his or her liking. He also didn't explain it how that would work, but we can guess it is some sort of small buff applied to a drop that you can equip it? Or maybe it is a buff that passes on to the crafted equipment with that material (like, bronze gives CON + 2, so, anything forged with it, will also give CON + 2). He also said that some drops will be usable on quests. So, the game will have a quest system.
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