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Post by m0nkf15h on Jun 23, 2016 8:08:39 GMT -6
First impressions are very good having played the demo. First i will agree that backdash does seem broken in its current state; its exploitable. Just needs a little delay before you can use it again, the player will be forced to use it more tactically (which is always a good thing).
I love the aesthetic and the feel of the demo well done. yes stuff should come out of the chests when you open them and yes some of the rigging/ropes should sag when used as a platform but other than that the look is great.
Menu screen is very nice i like the way its been kept nice and old skool, very refreshing. Please dont simplify the stat system as someone else suggested just have mouse-over or equivalent tool-tip explaining how each stat effects the character.
On the shards system; i think its a nice system reminds me of Aria of Sorrow (in a good way) although maybe renaming the shard categories in the menu would be less confusing i think perhaps "Trigger" should be renamed "Active" (because its activatable with Y button) and "Effective" should be renamed "Passive" (because its a non-activatable passive buff or other effect) but the other shard categories are fine named as they are, they make logical sense.
SIDE NOTE:- Someone suggested a way to level up shard abilities by combining shards of the same type it's an interesting idea and got me thinking - perhaps you could combine two shards of the same colour and loose them both but create a new shard with an unknown effect (perhaps hybridising the effects 2 shards used) which may or may not work out well for the player, this would encourage experimentation and would mean that if you collect multiple shards from one enemy type (as i did in the demo) then duplicates need not be wasted - if not this then perhaps work surplus shards into the item crafting of the game as a raw material or optional component to enhance items.
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Post by Efrath on Jun 23, 2016 8:11:23 GMT -6
First I want to say that the demo felt pretty damn solid, it was a fun, short experience and the controls felt tight and responsive. Now, some feedback I'd like to give is some variation in the kicks when you wear martial art boots, or that type of weapon at least, or if you have the attack be different depending on what type of martial arts weapon you have equipped. Visual feedback when you hit a wall or push against one would be nice. I want to tell Iga and the team that small details does a lot in immersing the player and getting them interested and involved in the game so I'd suggest talking about that at times, see what small little fun details you can add without it weighing too heavily on your workload. Maybe even something like your current weapon causing a different walking and run animation until she sheathes said weapon?
I'm sure Iga and the others already are aware of the positive effect small details can have but I figured it can't hurt to say it just in case it's something they haven't considered yet, though the fact that gloop enemies already have different death animations depending on if you kill them with a weapon or a shard ability points towards them already knowing this.
EDIT: Played the demo again, visual change in equipment is there I realised, so I suppose my main question would be if changing body equipment will have a visual change or not.
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Post by Ramzo Wily on Jun 23, 2016 8:12:36 GMT -6
Played the demo last night. Wish I hadn't. Because before I was fine with the game not coming out until 2017 AND NOW I CAN'T WAIT!
I will probable be playing this demo over, and over, and over, and over....
ANYWAY
Just a few of my thoughts:
- Love than you can stand on the Morte Cannon's. Bone pillar ftw.
- Having tried it I still feel like being able to backdash chain is a strange feature and it just...looks awkward. But obviously I'm not swaying anybody's opinion on that one... >.>
- The clouds! Oh man, I got kinda sick looking at them. Why do they move that fast? I know it was a thing in Symphony but I always wrote that off as being a weird issue with it being a ps1 game. Kinda not into keeping that aesthetic.
- I don't have an issue with the boss being colorful. I thing it just kinda looks like it's lacking in detail for some of it. Everything north of the giant mouth stomach thing looks a little weird.
- Everything else about the graphics? Freakin' phenomenal.
On a more personal note, we had to put my dad's dog to sleep yesterday. He passed away a few years ago and I felt like this dog was kinda a living link to him, so with her gone now too I was pretty broken up about it. So getting this demo in my email felt like the universe apologizing to me.
Universe: I'm sorry, Ramzo. Here, have this incredible new Igavania game.
Ramzo: Okay, universe. I forgive you...
...this time.
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Jango
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Post by Jango on Jun 23, 2016 8:16:07 GMT -6
I could be completely wrong, but this demo being an E3 demo is likely the answer to a lot of the complaints that keep popping up here. This build of the game was put together for the sole purpose of displaying to E3 audiences in a fixed environment and setup. Issues with resolution, key bindings, etc aren't really issues at all since the team was planning on this build being played on a PC with a specific controller type and a specific display setup at their booth. The fact that this demo was released to backers at all is exceptionally kind, but users should probably keep in mind what this build's primary purpose was. (E3 demonstrations)
Similarly, it's very common for convention demo builds to have lower difficulty than the final release since developers generally want users to have a more positive experience (and complete the demo faster.) Things like damage values, equipment drops, AI, etc. are likely nowhere near final. Especially considering how rapidly this game is shaping up, the fact that all these aspects of the game are implemented so soon bodes very well for the final product. Inti can iterate and tweak variables such as damage, stats, drop chance, animation speed, movement speed, ai, active frames, hitboxes, etc. from now (before now, obviously) all the way to release. That's a nice window of time for polishing the nuts and bolts of gameplay.
Whew. That was probably far more words than necessary. Haha Keep up the great work Iga and Inti!
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Post by beizlfreiz on Jun 23, 2016 8:17:50 GMT -6
so I played the demo. I got to the boss twice and didn't beat it either time. here is my feedback. note, I did not finish the demo.
things I liked:
the backdash the music the weapons the level of control over miriam in air
things I did not like:
miriam's turn: I would suggest either making it more animated or faster by a frame or two silence: enemies and miriam could make more noise the boss: I personally didn't like the bosses visual design at all, I felt that it was weak in comparison to even the basic enemies in the level
other things:
during my second attempt at the demo, everything got really laggy and by the time I got to the boss my experience was unpleasant. as I was fighting the boss on this playthrough, I was unable to damage it with my sword, though the fire spell still worked also, occasionally miriam would slide without playing the sliding animation, she would just stand still and move across the ground. personally I thought this looked pretty cool but it didn't seem intentional so I thought I'd mention it.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 23, 2016 8:45:16 GMT -6
Mana i saw that the plan was to make the tutorial more cinematic or something from the Kickstarter page. Is that true? the one thing I loved about SOTN was it didn't have to tell you anything. You were thrown into a world to figure things out yourself. Keeping the great immersion as a result. So not that my one opinion really matters but I hope the game doesn't go too much In the direction of characters telling you " hey Miriam to defeat demons with your shard magic you must do this" it always was kinda meh to me. I'd honestly much prefer the button controls pop up in a more subtle way and give the option to even turn them off. i hope the team at least considers it, for the 90s gamers out there like myself
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Post by pseudopsia on Jun 23, 2016 8:50:51 GMT -6
I noticed the demo was limited to a few resolutions. There are too many different types of monitors that PC gamers use so it should be set to a list that their monitor support.
I didn't run into any issue playing the demo at 4k resolution, however I had to do an odd thing to force it to 4k resolution. I noticed in windowed mode if I stretched the window it changed the render resolution to the size I stretched it to. So I used a 3rd party app to force borderless windowed mode with desktop set to 4k resolution.
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Post by Eteral on Jun 23, 2016 9:01:28 GMT -6
Great game overall! But I have to nitpick some minor things that I Think should be noted.
1) Attacking a Wall makes Miriam clip into it, especially using a sword, in which case almost all of The body disappears behind the wall. It would be nice if, when striking an immovable object, The character world recoil And stagger for a split second.
2) Add more expressions and emotions. I know It is only a cutscene in The demo, but Miriam felt lifeless, like a doll, during It. Anyway I think this will get addressed.
3) Animation during side switching and others should be more fluid and natural. One of the things that made sotn what It is now, was the wide array of movement and animation that the character had. Alucard felt alive (sorta) And breathing behind the screen. Adding more movements And fluidity to Miriam would greatly help. Even minor things like a brief shudder (She is in The middle of a storm), would make her more likeable and alive.
4) The demo felt way too easy, even for a demo. The boss in particular. Increasing The frequency of attacks and their speed should suffice. Dont touch the health bars though, I Dont want bullet sponges.
Thats all! Thanks to whoever will give a minute of their time to read my bumblings. You are on the right road! This is gonna be great!
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Post by thisguy on Jun 23, 2016 9:12:16 GMT -6
To those who mentioned about the tutorial and the demo being too easy:
I do think it helps to give a tutorial the way it is. However an option to turn on and off tutorials in the menu before the game is a pretty solid idea.
For the difficulty of the demo. Like someone above said, it was an E3 demo. E3 demo's are very well known to be intentionally easy so people can beat it quickly and give it to the next person in line. It also ends on a positive note and makes the player feel better. What we got was exactly that, the E3 demo. So I would not count what you encountered the actual difficulty of this stage.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 23, 2016 9:18:42 GMT -6
To those who mentioned about the tutorial and the demo being too easy: I do think it helps to give a tutorial the way it is. However an option to turn on and off tutorials in the menu before the game is a pretty solid idea. For the difficulty of the demo. Like someone above said, it was an E3 demo. E3 demo's are very well known to be intentionally easy so people can beat it quickly and give it to the next person in line. It also ends on a positive note and makes the player feel better. What we got was exactly that, the E3 demo. So I would not count what you encountered the actual difficulty of this stage. Glad you agree about the option to turn tutorials off. I mean I get why some people might need it but part of the fun of games is discovering things for yourself. I hate when games are basically yelling at you " I'm a game!"
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thrashinuva
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[TI2] I'm interested in this.
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Post by thrashinuva on Jun 23, 2016 9:22:26 GMT -6
I'm glad generally everyone likes the demo.
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Post by paladin on Jun 23, 2016 9:23:59 GMT -6
Overall I liked the demo, but here are some issues/suggestions:
- Loading/framerate drops. Whenever a new enemy type appeared or a new area needed to be loaded, the game would freeze for about 3-10 seconds. Also, in certain areas the framerate would drop considerably. This seemed to happen most often most in areas with the rain effect
- Sound mixing. It was often hard to hear the music over the ambient effects, particularly outside. Though I imagine this will be easy to solve when we can access the sound settings.
- Backdashing. I can see this has been discussed in this thread already and ultimately it's a design choice whether backdash cancelling stays in. I don't mind either way. However, it still seems to be faster for movement to backdash everywhere instead of run. Perhaps a way to resolve this is to add lag to recovering from the dash unless it is cancelled into an action? This would prevent it being used as an alternative to running while keeping most of its combat utility.
Overall though I think it was a great demo and looks very promising, great job.
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Post by void2258 on Jun 23, 2016 9:28:03 GMT -6
Nice little demo. Good responsiveness, My comments: Combat: - What is that idle/standing pose supposed to be? She is in combat, so why is she posing for a photoshoot on one leg? You would never stand like that,even just standing around. Give her a real stance, preferably with her equipped weapon showing in guard position, and a sensible idle animation as well.
- This has always bugged me about Castlevania, so lets fix it here: let us attack at angles. Let us hit up and attack to swing at things above us, down-left to swing diagonally down, etc. The enemy in a position you can't hit due to only swinging straight is the bane of platforming. Especially pertinent with regard to any longer range weapons we get.
- Let us hold down to attack continuously. It's fine to be semi-auto for ammunition-based things like spells, but there is no need for it for main weapons that we will just be button mashing for anyway. All that will happen if it isn't included will be a hack to enable it, just like those controllers that had the switch for it back on consoles. Alternatively give us enemies with a parry-riposte mechanic (ie when they do X don't hit them or they counter hard) so there is a reason not button mash.
- Could we get a forward roll as well? Always bugged me that we have a roll back and a slide forward with completely different controls. The slide should be for navigation, while roll forward and back (or more accurately, roll in the given direction), mapped to LT and RT, should be for combat.
- I wish we had more interaction with the level, ie pick up a powder magazine and throw it at the enemies in combat, then light it off for an explosion with our flame magic.
- Miriam seems a bit OP compared to the enemies (even the boss didn't take many hits or have that complex a pattern), but that could just be due to this being an intro level or due to the enemy amounts not yet being balanced. I'm sure with more complicated levels or with with greater numbers coming at you, this would feel fine.
- Having the game stop to show a level-up animation while you are in mid-air could cause issues if you are trying to do a complicated jump when it happens.
Inventory:
- In the full game, I hope the stuff we set in the inventory changes Miriam's appearance.
- Incidentally, I got boots at one point that seemed to vanish into the mists. I assume that slot just hasn't been put in yet.
- Not really clear on what the stats are, especially since some appear to be compound. This will need to be clear in the final game (especially what modifiers on equipment do).
- Please don't use x to move around in the inventory screen.
- Level map is very flat appearance wise, but of course this is partly due to the level lacking special rooms. More themeing to the map would be nice (ie it is drawn over the picture of a boat).
Graphics:
- The characters stand out from the background but also don't seem to fit on it. The art style between the background and the characters is a bit disjointed, making it seem like they don't belong (could just be this map). Part of it is we are on a dark level, yet the characters are all perfectly front lit. During the boss fight, you have a brightly lit pink tentacle trying to hit you during the boss fight, but it's moving across a dimly lit ship deck.
- The power up giving lanterns stand out but also don't fit the level.
- What are these enemies supposed to be? The squid, oil men, and spirits at least somewhat fit the level theme, but the headless armors clearly do not fit the map, and I have no idea what the hell is going on with that boss. I find it hard to be scared of something put together like that and in those colors.
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Post by jboogieg on Jun 23, 2016 9:32:00 GMT -6
To those who mentioned about the tutorial and the demo being too easy: I do think it helps to give a tutorial the way it is. However an option to turn on and off tutorials in the menu before the game is a pretty solid idea. For the difficulty of the demo. Like someone above said, it was an E3 demo. E3 demo's are very well known to be intentionally easy so people can beat it quickly and give it to the next person in line. It also ends on a positive note and makes the player feel better. What we got was exactly that, the E3 demo. So I would not count what you encountered the actual difficulty of this stage. Glad you agree about the option to turn tutorials off. I mean I get why some people might need it but part of the fun of games is discovering things for yourself. I hate when games are basically yelling at you " I'm a game!" Yeah, I'm actually interested in what the new tutorials might be because I believe they'll be actual story bits but an option to turn them off would be grand. Also let's not forget that tutorials mainly came into fruition because nobody reads manuals. :V Godspeed, little books. I actually enjoyed you.
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Post by void2258 on Jun 23, 2016 9:35:53 GMT -6
Also let's not forget that tutorials mainly came into fruition because nobody reads manuals. :V I am reasonably certain that a decent proportion of us are getting the game download only, and thus we don't have a manual to read.
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Post by Alceris on Jun 23, 2016 9:43:23 GMT -6
Not bad for an early demo, but as mentioned numerous times before, the keyboard controls are somewhat haphazard, and there's no way to aim the Directional shards with mouse and keyboard. I would suggest using the mouse to aim them.
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Post by Belz on Jun 23, 2016 9:44:36 GMT -6
Here`s my unedited gameplay of it (1st run).
hope it will be useful.
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Post by jucksalbe on Jun 23, 2016 9:47:21 GMT -6
Really enjoyed the demo, this game is shaping up to be everything I hoped for when I backed this Kickstarter. Some smaller things I'd personally change: - Level ups should regenerate health. I guess there's a pro and contra for that, but I'd prefer if they did.
- The level up animation could be a little faster. It just feels like it takes that tiny bit too long. Not a big problem, though.
- I guess there will be a different slider for SFX volume in the full game, but as for now, please reduce the volume of some sound effects like the sound it makes when you're running on wood. It feels louder than it should be.
- The boss was more spectacle than a real fight. Standing at in front of it and just mashing the attack button worked just fine for most of the fight.
Nice little demo. Good responsiveness, My comments: Inventory:
- Incidentally, I got boots at one point that seemed to vanish into the mists. I assume that slot just hasn't been put in yet.
Are you talking about the Kung Fu boots (I think that's what they were called?). Those count as a weapon, so you can set them to the weapon slot.
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Post by void2258 on Jun 23, 2016 9:52:08 GMT -6
Nice little demo. Good responsiveness, My comments: Inventory:
- Incidentally, I got boots at one point that seemed to vanish into the mists. I assume that slot just hasn't been put in yet.
Are you talking about the Kung Fu boots (I think that's what they were called?). Those count as a weapon, so you can set them to the weapon slot. Ah ok. It never even occurred to me that boots would be a weapon, so I never looked at that slot. I just assumed they were armor that hadn't had the slot implemented yet. Might be worth looking into making that perfectly clear.
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Torabi
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Post by Torabi on Jun 23, 2016 9:53:24 GMT -6
Just got through my second playthrough of the demo, here's my notes: The title screen is very pretty, and I like the fill animation when it starts up. It gives the impression of a sunrise, while still giving the castle a forbidding, gloomy look. Miriam looks and feels good overall. The movements and animations are elaborate and deliberate, giving it a sense of weight. I particularly like the turning animation, very reminiscent of SotN, as I'm sure is intentional. I like Miriam's combat pose, and think it fits well with the after-kick stance. Her idle stance, however, looks odd with her weight on the front foot, particularly transitioning from the kick. After doing a sidekick like that, you either want to kick again, or plant in front, with your weight on the kicking foot. The combat -> idle transition animation handles the shift in weight, but the afterkick -> idle transition doesn't. The main problem is that her legs are so close together, so it doesn't allow room for her to shift her weight properly. I think I'd have preferred the wider idle stance shown earlier, though it was certainly less feminine (perhaps because it was). Regardless, I think the issue could be easily solved by transitioning from after-kick to the combat stance, rather than directly to the idle stance. For reference, here's what I'm referring to for each animation: "Afterkick" | "Combat" | "Idle" | | | |
For afterkick and combat, her weight is on her back foot, and the front foot is ready to strike. For idle, however, her weight is on her front foot. The transition from combat to idle shows her shifting her weight from one foot to the other, but transitioning from afterkick to idle is too abrupt. It's a little weird to be able to jump out of the backdash at any part of the animation, since her feet aren't technically touching the ground, but it seems like a nice feature for mobility, and not too hard to imagine that she could kick off the floor during the backdash. It's nice being able to rapidly perform the backdash, without needing to do silly animation canceling, but I do share the concern that since it's faster than walking, some people will feel compelled to do it for the sake of speed, even if they would rather not because it's silly. I do like the landing animation for the backdash, and I find some strange pleasure in walking one direction, then rapidly turning and backdashing at the same time in order to hop forward. Backdashing into a kick also looks very nice. The item popup being in the corner when you open a chest feels more uncomfortable than it seems like it should. Other items found on the ground display the same way, and have in other games as well, without being a problem, but it does make it feel like the item pickup is disassociated from the chest. As others have said, having the item visually appear over the chest would help a lot, even if the name continues to be displayed in the corner. I did find it odd that the map rate, gold, enemy kill, and play time counters don't work in the menu, but doubt that the developers aren't aware of it. Just strange that they're there, and that there is gold to be collected, but the counters don't work. The item collection sound seems very familiar to me. Certainly pleasant. The equipment screen feels a little redundant, having the overview, but also being able to switch slots after you've selected one. Not necessarily a problem, and I've seen worse equipment screens, but it seems more complex than it needs to be, and wastes screen space. Miriam's character model being there doesn't add much when it doesn't visually change to reflect what's equipped. The item selection interface might as well always be open, rather than needing to pick on a slot first. The way the landing animation cancels attacks is particularly annoying. It should transition into the standing version of the attack, rather than canceling it. As it is, it makes combat feel unresponsive or clunky when attacks are interrupted or simply refuse to come out when you're jumping around. The sword swing animation is satisfying, and the after-swing stance looks good. However, there are two problems with the transition out of that stance. First is that the sword disappears from her hand before the transition, drawing attention to the fact that it just disappears. It should either disappear later, as part of the motion of her arm, to support the illusion that she's putting it away, or it should disappear more dramatically, to make it clear that it's magic. The other issue is that sometimes it transitions directly from after-swing to idle, and other times it transitions from after-swing to the unarmed combat stance for a moment before quickly transitioning to the idle stance. After-swing to idle looks good, apart of the disappearing sword, but after-swing -> unarmed combat -> idle has some unnecessary arm-waving that looks silly. I still think Miriam looks far too plastic, and stands out from the background in a bad way. She and the enemies look like they're pasted on top of the scene, rather than being part of it. The teal highlight on her boots is particularly bad, and so is how rigid her hair is, particularly in the cutscene at the end. Buer looks particularly pasted-on, partially because of the way it bumps around without necessarily touching the walls it's bumping into. The interface, however, is particularly nice. The blood dripping from the crescent under the portrait, and filling it as you take damage, is a neat little detail that adds a lot of style. The vial for HP, and the stained-glass flowers around the MP bar are clear representations that can be understood at a glance, while also being thematically appropriate. As others have said, the net platforms are particularly iffy. They don't move like they should for being rope, it's hard to tell where the platform is, and it looks strange jumping through them. Miriam should definitely jump in front of them, rather than inside them. I must admit some disappointment that touching enemies hurts you. I'd hoped we could move past that as a game mechanic, and require the enemies to actually attack you to deal damage. As it is, the hitboxes are a little odd, particularly on the Dullahammer. It's hard to tell what's safe to touch, and what isn't, and what part of the attack animations are actually dangerous. When it's swinging its head around, it won't actually hurt you, and you can safely jump through it. I'd rather they be more aggressive, but be able to jump on them safely. The shard collection animation is absolutely fantastic, though it's strange when the flying shard hits Miriam in the back, yet then is inexplicably shown piercing her body from the front. Either it should fly around to ensure it hits the front, or there should be a separate animation depending on whether it hits her in the front or the back. Anyway, it's neat that you can tell when an enemy is dropping a shard during its death animation. The level up animation is also fantastic, though it catches me by surprise every time. Seama seems to have 12 HP, and yet a single attack of Cerulean Splash at 10 damage will kill it. I'm guessing that Cerulean Splash hits multiple times, since I see a second damage number pop up after the enemy dies, but the timing makes it confusing. I'd expect the numbers to pop up when the damage is dealt, offset if necessary so that they don't overlap. The animation for Cerulean Splash is also a little underwhelming, particularly when it's described as a "whirlpool". The shard info screen hints at some interesting progression elements... Shards appear to have both a level and a quality rating. I wonder how they'll be increased... It's nice that the type and power are displayed, rather than having to guess. I really feel the stained-glass flowers that restore MP shouldn't be able to float through walls. It's annoying when they drift out of reach. Directional shards are neat, and I like Miriam's aiming animation, but the control scheme makes it particular hard to aim while jumping, because of having to quickly shift between jump and the stick. I'm not sure what a good solution is, however. The kung-fu shoes are great. I'm glad that the kicking animation isn't just for unarmed, and that there's at least one weapon that makes use of it. Hopefully there are more. It's also neat how it changes Miriam's look, but raises the question of why doesn't the long sword? Why does it disappear whenever it's not being used, rather than Miriam carrying it around? Head Flail appears and disappears so suddenly that it's hard to see it. It could stand to be a bit more flashy, rather than just blinking in and out of existence. Something to give it a sense of weight, rather than just looking like a scarf that Miriam is flinging around. Vepar is absolutely hideous, and not in a good way. I think parts of it look like they're supposed to be crystalline, but it's hard to tell when the whole thing is so shiny. It doesn't look organic either. The color scheme is garish, and it looks like plastic putty even more than everything else. It was neat how it showed up throughout the stage, however. The part where it crashes through the wall and spits out the three Seama eggs is quite the surprise.
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