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Post by XombieMike on Jun 17, 2016 6:18:19 GMT -6
You can't multiquote, so I'll reply to all here. Maybe multiquote is just as broken as back dash...They're not.
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Post by K. Azune on Jun 17, 2016 7:50:01 GMT -6
So, about that back dash stuff. Of course, it's up to IGA whether it remains unchanged or gets reworked, but I honestly don't see why it can be considered "broken". To really take advantage of it, you have to think how you use it and be experienced with it. I'm not very skilled player, and when I try to do such things as back-dash-cancelling in SotN, I often back dash into enemy, trap, or off a ledge. Not many people are as hardcore, and usually play just for fun, not thinking of few seconds gained by mashing back dash button instead of walking or reaching goodies early by doing quadruple jump with tight time window. Fast back dash can be actually useful for casual player to dodge massive boss attacks or to escape from room full of high-level enemies where just walking to exit or trying to kill them would result in game over. Having faster form of movement also helps to ease boredom a little while backtracking during your effort to obtain 100% (or 200,6%, or 1000%) completion. If you ask my opinion, I don't have any problems with either form of back dash, but having some "bullshit physics" to play with adds to overall fun.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 17, 2016 8:36:07 GMT -6
Disclaimer: I haven't watched the demo stuff and read a lot of the text on details, but as always, I do have things I want to mash on my keyboard about.
crocodile , To throw in on the stats discussion, I prefer them more as CON, MND, etc for a few reasons.
- A stat can affect more parameters than just a bump in the reduction of damage, i.e. DEF, so CON = DEF may not be an accurate replacement. Constitution could entail defense, but also HP, lessening of knockback, status ailment recovery speed, possibly even relating to the use of certain abilities, weapons or items (i.e. Miriam's constitution has to be substantial enough to withstand a certain powerful transformative ability that if acquired/done too early could sequence break, etc). I've no idea if they plan on implementing any of that, but it all could tie in to a stat, and attaching abilities and upgrades to the thought of a character's actual body/essence/mind makes more sense than usual actually in Miriam's case.
- That ties into my next point, it sounds more fantastical and interesting that way, to imagine that these things crafted with alchemy or found within Gebel's constructs are augmenting actual parts of Miriam's being - altering her body and mind. That thought is just more intriguing than the comparatively boring (albeit yeah, more simple) thought of, oh this magical cape I just alchemy'd with things has more DEF, guess I'm wearing that
- It can be obtuse and confusing how sometimes items etc can boost something like CON or just DEF directly, but I think that a press of the select button for help text could alleviate that, to explain that DEF is just a substat of CON, mana (heh) or x resistance is just a substat of MND, etc. A dynamic approach can easily be confusing, but I really lean toward liking things that are more obscured anyway. We are dealing with crazy occult stuff here, too, after all.
And this also kind of relates to my thoughts on the shard type names...maybe the conveyance from a difference in language is a problem, but I would err on the side of preserving their initial design choices/thoughts on when they conceived those words. The words themselves may mean more to them than the actual thoughts/language than is immediately obvious/be an artistic choice, in a way.
On to kupomogli, hi and welcome to the forum. Kupo!
I'd just like to be a little constructive here. Your posts are coming off basically just as "I am gud, so listen". In all of that so far, you've presented that you think backdash is broken, but the thoughts on why aren't as substantial as your promotion of your accomplishments.
My thoughts on movement are basically that, you're only going to be speeding through the castle after you are already familiar with its layout, enemies and spaces where it's otherwise even worth exerting whatever the execution is. Your first playthrough of any area, which is I think the most important experience that we're aiming to make the best here, will be more to assess or just enjoy the game, then learn optimizations like routes and movement. At that point, you most definitely want to move fast, within reason, because now you're not as worried about reacting to unknown enemies or terrain to hurt or otherwise impair your progress. That's great. As with SotN, maybe it's more effective in certain spots/later in the game to wolf run, wing smash, take something that's like the equivalent of a Luck Mode knockback to skip something if that exists lol, etc. Those dynamics are really cool for people that run the game, after they have already experienced hundreds of hours of playing normally and then testing such.
Also, romscout hahaha...I'm well, surprised you didn't know about the guy, as experienced as you sound. He's held multiple world records for these games, so I definitely wouldn't say he's "not a very good" speedrunner. He runs games live in front of over 100k people at a time, too, which takes a lot of guts. He even routed and executes SotN blindfolded lol (and also executing beating the game by manipulating values in the inventory screen D:), so...folks putting weight into his input here is certainly warranted. I don't think there's any one person I would feel safe to say knows more about the inner workings of IGA's games. His input would be flavored by his hobby yeah haha, but he would on a normal player level understand the importance of the main experience, like with what I was talking about above where most everyone experiences a game for the first time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 9:44:48 GMT -6
oi65.tinypic.com/2ppgg84.jpgIf you look in the Shard Menu is written "FAMILIR" and not "FAMILIAR". Ah and another thing, Alucard in Castlevania normally jump platforms and Miriam pass through the platforms like walk through one wall.
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 17, 2016 11:17:21 GMT -6
oi65.tinypic.com/2ppgg84.jpgIf you look in the Shard Menu is written "FAMILIR" and not "FAMILIAR". Ah and another thing, Alucard in Castlevania normally jump platforms and Miriam pass through the platforms like walk through one wall. Mana In the "Equipment set 1" Menu, Familiar is misspelled.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 17, 2016 11:36:14 GMT -6
oi65.tinypic.com/2ppgg84.jpgIf you look in the Shard Menu is written "FAMILIR" and not "FAMILIAR". Ah and another thing, Alucard in Castlevania normally jump platforms and Miriam pass through the platforms like walk through one wall. Mana In the "Equipment set 1" Menu, Familiar is misspelled. Maybe it's intentional to separate itself from Castlevania.
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Rixuel
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Post by Rixuel on Jun 17, 2016 12:54:47 GMT -6
Mana In the "Equipment set 1" Menu, Familiar is misspelled. Maybe it's intentional to separate itself from Castlevania. I don't think "Familiar" is copyrighted lol Btw, just my personal taste, I prefer the first posture (left) more than the second posture (right). They are both nice postures but I still prefer the one in the left. Menu: So far, the menu looks excellent! Maybe just put the character name "Miriam" on it too?
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 17, 2016 13:01:57 GMT -6
You can't multiquote, so I'll reply to all here. Maybe multiquote is just as broken as back dash...They're not. This was really smart ass of me. I over reacted because Romscout was insulted. Sorry. Let's not dog pile a new guy. His point was made and we can take it or leave it for what it is. My bad.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 17, 2016 13:03:04 GMT -6
Maybe it's intentional to separate itself from Castlevania. I don't think "Familiar" is copyrighted lol Btw, just my personal taste, I prefer the first posture (left) more than the second posture (right). They are both nice postures but I still prefer the one in the left. Menu: So far, the menu looks excellent! Maybe just put the character name "Miriam" on it too? I think the left one is when you stand still for a while, like in SotN when Alucard changed his stance when you stopped walking.
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Post by Rixuel on Jun 17, 2016 13:13:15 GMT -6
I don't think "Familiar" is copyrighted lol Btw, just my personal taste, I prefer the first posture (left) more than the second posture (right). They are both nice postures but I still prefer the one in the left. Menu: So far, the menu looks excellent! Maybe just put the character name "Miriam" on it too? I think the left one is when you stand still for a while, like in SotN when Alucard changed his stance when you stopped walking. Ah, if that's the case, then it's all fine.
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Post by Goobsausage on Jun 17, 2016 15:02:38 GMT -6
Mana In the "Equipment set 1" Menu, Familiar is misspelled. Maybe it's intentional to separate itself from Castlevania. I was thinking it was intentionally misspelled in order to distinguish itself from other games or fantasy-related media using familiars as a concept, fit the style of how some words used to be spelled during the time period Bloodstained's set in, or create a minor sense of unease. I'm thinking along the lines of how Eternal Darkness used the old spelling "magick" instead of magic or DC intentionally naming one of their villains "Darkseid" instead of "Darkside".
The suggestions I have right now mainly have to do with how the boss was handled. I loved seeing a little bit of Vepar show up before you fight her. I also liked how I could only see part of her and thinking "oh, that's the boss's face", then seeing all of Vepar and going "whoa, Vepar has two faces. One in the head and one in the stomach." I would like to see Bloodstained's full game tease more bosses in the background before players fight them, if possible (would teasing a boss fit with the story/lore, atmosphere, or boss's fight?). One of my favorite parts of horror is knowing a monster is there, but not knowing what it fully looks like or knowing when and how it will attack. The cutscene where Miriam dodge's Vepar's tentacles and leaped in the air, looked cool, but in the final game or if Miriam gets a voice actor by the time the beta comes out, I think it could benefit from having her make some action-y noises or grunts. Miriam sounded a little odd by not making any noise. I have a feeling that the fade to black before the boss fight was a loading screen, and I felt it was a little abrupt. I think a better way to have a transition to a boss fight would be if there was a "loading hallway" after the boss door, similar to the ones from SOTN, Mega Man games, or Metroid Prime's tunnels, in order to give the game time to load or get the game's camera ready to change its position as Miriam walks into the boss room. Even if it wouldn't make a big difference, those types of hallways can also be used to build suspense and I think it'd be appropriate to have them in Bloodstained since they were featured in SOTN.
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Post by crocodile on Jun 17, 2016 16:02:30 GMT -6
Intentionally misspelt? C'mon you guys LOL. Familiar isn't a "Castlevania" word, its an "English Language" word. Seeing that misspelling is going to drive a lot of English-speakers (the majority of backers and many consumers) up a wall.. They goofed. But it's an early build so clearly they didn't go over the text with a fine comb because it doesn't matter yet. Disclaimer: I haven't watched the demo stuff and read a lot of the text on details, but as always, I do have things I want to mash on my keyboard about.
crocodile , To throw in on the stats discussion, I prefer them more as CON, MND, etc for a few reasons.
- A stat can affect more parameters than just a bump in the reduction of damage, i.e. DEF, so CON = DEF may not be an accurate replacement. Constitution could entail defense, but also HP, lessening of knockback, status ailment recovery speed, possibly even relating to the use of certain abilities, weapons or items (i.e. Miriam's constitution has to be substantial enough to withstand a certain powerful transformative ability that if acquired/done too early could sequence break, etc). I've no idea if they plan on implementing any of that, but it all could tie in to a stat, and attaching abilities and upgrades to the thought of a character's actual body/essence/mind makes more sense than usual actually in Miriam's case.
- That ties into my next point, it sounds more fantastical and interesting that way, to imagine that these things crafted with alchemy or found within Gebel's constructs are augmenting actual parts of Miriam's being - altering her body and mind. That thought is just more intriguing than the comparatively boring (albeit yeah, more simple) thought of, oh this magical cape I just alchemy'd with things has more DEF, guess I'm wearing that
- It can be obtuse and confusing how sometimes items etc can boost something like CON or just DEF directly, but I think that a press of the select button for help text could alleviate that, to explain that DEF is just a substat of CON, mana (heh) or x resistance is just a substat of MND, etc. A dynamic approach can easily be confusing, but I really lean toward liking things that are more obscured anyway. We are dealing with crazy occult stuff here, too, after all.
And this also kind of relates to my thoughts on the shard type names...maybe the conveyance from a difference in language is a problem, but I would err on the side of preserving their initial design choices/thoughts on when they conceived those words. The words themselves may mean more to them than the actual thoughts/language than is immediately obvious/be an artistic choice, in a way.
A) I can only talk about what I've seen and what I know about how those stats have worked in previous Igavania games (and they haven't even been consistent in the past!). There is not a lot that is intuitive of having two defense states that are nebulously related, two physical offense stats that are nebulously related, a single magic offense and then a magic resistance stat that works in undefined ways. Simplicity, Clarity, Straight-Forwardness >> Opacity, Confusion and Complexity that doesn't make things more fun. This is all my opinion and my perspective on game design but I will stay pretty stringent on this. B) So this is about the naming specially? That you prefer a hypothetical Magic Defense be called Mind? I can't say that is something I particularly value (and I think its somewhat limiting flavor wise as I explained before) but its a place I could give on. Remaining it to Magic Defense is much clearer and has worked for multiple other RPGs so I think its much better but I take more issue with what I explained above with "what exactly does CON or STR do?", "Why is there separate ATK and DEF values that are function of other parameters?", "Why doesn't this apply to Magic parameters?" than anything else. C) The availability of help screens or text doesn't make it any less intuitive. The fewer such help texts are needed, the better I feel. D) Text =/= Visual Art. This isn't poetry we are talking about but rather prose. If these English words don't make sense when translated from Japanese (or if better words can be used) then changes should be made. That's what translation/localization means. As I said before, these may be the best words but right now I'm skeptical. That's why we don't just use computers to translate texts but have bilingual and native speaking humans translate from one language to another - because sometimes the literal translation of X into Y language is not the best. It's fine to have a preference that goes against the popular belief. If others feel the same way we will hear about it unless we discourage unpopular opinions (which we don't). In my personal opinion, Romscout directly addressed this during E3 with IGA and Ben and if it's good enough for Romscout it's good enough for me. You can't multiquote, so I'll reply to all here. Most gamers aren't very good at gaming period, so the popular belief in that sense would be that these people would need every broken gameplay mechanic available at their disposal. It's why so many reviews complained about Dracula X Chronicles mechanics and made statements in the review that they're giving bumping the score a few points higher because of Symphony of the Night as an unlockable. It's why so many so called "Castlevania fans" don't like anything but the exploration based titles. Additionally, I shouldn't have to not use a mechanic in the game. It's like all these stupid challenges people make because the games were too easy due to poor development. Whether it's a broken backdash, painfully easy gameplay, etc, it's not my responsibility to fix the games problems by not using what's available to me, it's the developers who needs to fix the issue so that people can't take advantage of it. Until hearing you mention Romscout, I've no idea who the guy was, so I Google'd him, and he's apparently a Castlevania speed runner. Not a very good one, but a speed runner nonetheless(I skimmed around his Bloodstained hype video.) Of course he wouldn't argue against a backdash that favors speed running. But hey, since this guy is a "popular" Castlevania speed runner, then your opinion is obviously based on him being a Castlevania fan, and based on "skill." Then here you go. If skill has anything to do with the better opinion, I'll let the videos of these five different Castlevania titles speak for themselves(I actually consider Lords of Shadow its own franchise, but it's titled Castlevania.) This isn't to say anyone here are scrubs, infact I dont care how good or bad you are, but this is showing how good I am at the series and how much I love the Castlevania series in general. I put $125 into the Bloodstained Kickstarter and I want to see it be released as an unrivaled masterpiece, even compared to the best games in the Castlevania series so it can turn into a franchise of its own. It's going to have both the main exploration gameplay and a level based classic mode, so I want to see the best of both combined into one(kind of like Dracula X Chronicles.) First video is an example of cancel attacks on SotN that I recorded awhile ago to show someone uninformed. Certainly shows that I know all about the movement mechanics and exactly what can be done in the game. I don't like to use the backdash to get around, but too often I can't help doing it because it's there. Second is my favorite stage in Dracula X Chronicles, replaced from the kind of pathetic one that took the same space in Rondo of Blood, except that I go through the stage without taking damage as well as do so on every other stage in the game on other videos, even if the quality is severely lacking and needs to be rerecorded. Third video is just a low level boss fight against Hugh in Circle of the Moon in Magician mode on level 25. Fourth is Lords of Shadow Mirror of Fate. A great game that gets undeserved hate. Boss Rush on hard. Fifth video is the last part in Lament of Innocence. I like this video a lot simply because I perfect guarded every unblockable blast he used, despite being in normal mode and not having to do so(also finished Death without using any curative items.) A) Is your argument that her backdash (which none of us have actually used or played with!) is so good that it makes speed-running too easy? I don't know if that is by definition broken. With all due respect, you can post all the speed running videos you've done that you want but calling a move "broken" before you've actually used it sounds a lot like the scrub talk I hear among many lower-tier fighting game players. At least wait until you get the demo in your hands before you form an argument against the move. B) Classicvanias and Igavanias offer fundamentally different experiences and appeal to different people in different ways. Even if you want to add a #NotAll disclaimer, trying to describe those who like/prefer Igavanias as "low-skill" seems needlessly antagonistic. C) I'm legit unsure how you can be a Catlsevania speedrunner (or at least someone who does deep dives on the mechanics of the games) and not know who romscout is. I'm not saying you're lying but wow that is not something I would have expected.
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XombieMike
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 17, 2016 16:49:42 GMT -6
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Post by Pure Miriam on Jun 18, 2016 1:12:34 GMT -6
Another feedback/suggestion, regarding the game elements and status problems. ELEMENT DAMAGE AND STATUS EFFECTSAs anyone can see, what those elements mean turned out to be a heated discussion. So, i decided to break up them into small pieces, in order to try to guess what each one is and give suggestions about it: ICON 1
What it looks like: A slash from a sword. What it could be: [damage] Cut damage type, from swords, knives, claws and such. ICON 2
What it looks like: A Blow spark What it could be: [damage] Blunt/Blow damage type, from kicks, hammers, canes, maces. ICON 3What it looks like: A piece of ice. What it could be: [damage] Ice damage type. ICON 4What it looks like: a dark whirlpool What it could be: [status] Curse. Instantly lowers Miriam's MP to zero and fix it at zero until the effect wears off. Can be healed with a specific Potion. ICON 5What it looks like: a purple cloud or bubbles. What it could be: [status] Poison. Miriam loses some HP each second until the effect wears off. Can be healed with a specific Potion. ICON 6What it looks like: a stone hand. What it could be: [status] Petrify. Stop Miriam's movement and greatly lower her defense. Player needs to move analog /padaround to get out from it. ICON 7What it looks like: a pocket watch. What it could be: [status] Slowdown. Greatly Lower Miriam's movement, attack speed, block movement skills (double jump, slide and such) and lower jump height until the effect wears off. Can be healed with a specific Potion. ICON 8What it looks like: the spark of a lance. What it could be: [damage] Pierce damage type, from lances, spears, spikes, guns and such. ICON 9What it looks like: Fire. What it could be: [damage] Fire damage type. ICON 10What it looks like: A thunderspark. What it could be: [damage] Thunder / Electric damage type. ICON 11What it looks like: A shining spark. What it could be: [damage] Holy / Sacred / Light damage type. ICON 12What it looks like: a hooded skull. What it could be: [damage] Darkness / Shadow damage type. ICON 13What it looks like: A boot, a crystal or somekind of rock. What it could be: [damage] Earth damage type. SUMMARY OF SUGGESTIONS REGARDING ELEMENTS AND STATUS EFFECTS Elemental damage types: Cut, Blunt, Pierce, Ice, Fire, Thunder, Holy, Darkness, Earth Status types: Curse, Poison, Petrify, Slowdown. Why Earth Damage? Igavania games never had earth damage.
Yeah, and that could change. A lot of games doesn't use earth damage much, and i think it could be fun to have it. Rocks, sand, CRYSTALS and such, are all related to earth. That's all folks!
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Post by Astaroth on Jun 18, 2016 9:57:52 GMT -6
i need to get my hands on the demo, either were all getting the resistances wrong or the progression hasnt been finalized yet, lightning either has a coin with the swirly cloud as wind and the skull is dark and poisons in a wierd spot, or the swirl is dark coined with the flash which is light and lightning has no coin with either wind or earth, or there is no petrify and the rock/tentacle thing is earth
but theres another option that whether or not something is weak to another element doesnt have to be coined, a fire demon may be strong to fire but not necessarily weak to ice too
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Post by Zaphnath-Panneah on Jun 19, 2016 15:59:50 GMT -6
Hi, everyone sorry for mostly being a lurker here. Just wanted to give my 2 cents on the stats and elements. Even tho Pure Miriam has done a great job breaking it down. What gives me the idea is mostly from CV:CotM; Since it has elements also. Now I heard IGA didn't really have his hands in this one but was very influenced by him . In that game they do have Fire,Ice,Plant,Poison,Earth,Stone,Wind,Electric,Light,Dark. So going off those most of what Pure had I agree with but not completely. 1.) The dark swirl I believe is Wind like a Tornado reason why is there is a green/blue slash icon all ready which was the color in the CotM version and is all ready taken in this version. 2.) The Boot one I do believe like some have pointed out that it could be ground/crystal to keep it with the theme. 3.) The Icons 1,2 & 8 could be Slash type hits like Swords...etc for 1. Whip type hits for 8 and Magic type hits for 2*. * one would think it would be just the elements that are magic only. but by CotM it was ranged and melee attacks, oh also if you touched them too. 4.) The CON stat is for the Condition Status resistance rate. Which the higher it goes the less likely hood you will be given an aliment. 5.) STR most likely is the opposite of CON and gives the player the strength to add a aliment to an enemy. 6.) INT in CotM increased MP rate and power for magic. But for this game INT mostly likely be a MP regain rate and MND will be your magic power. Now no one has to agree with me if they believe differently, but it should be food for thought at the minimum. Sorry if any of this has already been discussed. And thank you to those that read my post.
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Post by darkbrotherhood on Jun 20, 2016 3:10:55 GMT -6
Boss needs to be harder, phase two seems lacking, what if she trows some enemie jellyfish in the mix? Boss is to collorful, a darker more green slugish would be great, now she looks like megabright neo Zord. Water blast needs some work visualy, fire looks fine. More hidden areas are needed Rats in the background, more stuff in general. Two chests together seems weird, why not add the two items in one chest? Sliding on the ground needs a bit further seems short but i dont know if you get a beter one after leveling up and upgrading so I cant ask this if i dont have the info you get a beter one further in the game. Using the whip on poles to swing like tarzan would be cool on this level More breakable stuff, barrels, crates? instead of just laterns would be nice. Seaguls and other hidden stuff.
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XombieMike
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Jul 8, 2015 7:10:22 GMT -6
July 2015
xombiemike
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 20, 2016 5:08:12 GMT -6
Boss needs to be harder, phase two seems lacking, what if she trows some enemie jellyfish in the mix? Boss is to collorful, a darker more green slugish would be great, now she looks like megabright neo Zord. Water blast needs some work visualy, fire looks fine. More hidden areas are needed Rats in the background, more stuff in general. Two chests together seems weird, why not add the two items in one chest? Sliding on the ground needs a bit further seems short but i dont know if you get a beter one after leveling up and upgrading so I cant ask this if i dont have the info you get a beter one further in the game. Using the whip on poles to swing like tarzan would be cool on this level More breakable stuff, barrels, crates? instead of just laterns would be nice. Seaguls and other hidden stuff. I agree with all of this except the boss being too colorful.
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inherit
882
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Jul 15, 2019 15:55:52 GMT -6
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giwagiwa
126
Nov 30, 2015 0:07:38 GMT -6
November 2015
giwagiwa
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Post by giwagiwa on Jun 20, 2016 6:43:38 GMT -6
Boss needs to be harder, phase two seems lacking, what if she trows some enemie jellyfish in the mix? Two chests together seems weird, why not add the two items in one chest? I've never liked it when bosses spam normal enemies. It'd be better if she just had more attacks. One chest per item has the advantage of feeling more rewarding to the player, like having 3 presents instead of 1. It also makes it easier to keep track of what you're getting, especially when one item is much more important than the other.
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BalancedHydra
Pillow Weapon Advocate
Master Alchemist
[TI1]
Posts: 572
inherit
Pillow Weapon Advocate
848
0
Jul 20, 2021 8:20:41 GMT -6
622
BalancedHydra
[TI1]
572
Oct 26, 2015 18:21:13 GMT -6
October 2015
balancedhydra
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Post by BalancedHydra on Jun 21, 2016 8:51:32 GMT -6
Has anyone notice that in the shard description screen that there is a quality tag with up to five stars? Does this mean that we can upgrade the shards by collecting more of the same shard like is Dawn of Sorrow?
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