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Post by venat on Jun 23, 2016 17:44:30 GMT -6
My Feed back on the Demo.
So I gotta say the demo was great and i'm looking forward to the finished product.
After my second play through of the demo there was somethings id like you guys to add to the final product/work on.
Shadows/Lighting. (Casting shadows/Casting Lighting on object/floor/characters/enemies etc)
Fire Effects that fall to the floor after smashing a lantern.
Tweek up some of those enemy designs/textures a bit more. Squid enemy I had no issues with besides how they came into frame. Sometimes they would always come into the same spot in front of me and I could just stand there tapping attack. So Id would adjust it a bit so players don't use it as easy way to earn exp or gold while they watch netflix. Maybe having them take a step before the next one drops in.
Holding Attack to do a power up attack based on the weapon your using. (Can be a Shard Power)
Jumping down in zones would cause me to load past platforms.
Improve on the hit detection of her attacks, sometimes it would pass through enemies.
Clipping through walls/backsteping into walls and clipping.
Not a fan of the gray outline when your clipping through walls or when objects are in front of your character. Maybe you could remove it? Its easy to know your character is pretty much always in center screen. I don't think we would lose sight of her.
Boss model & main character model look pretty cartoonie when close up in those cut scenes. I would make them look more bad ass.
Improve the textures for areas. blocky/blurry. Charatcers and enemies stand out a lot cus they are so well detailed. While everything could use better detail and textures.
Fps drop rate happens quite a bit when enemies come into screen/die and going into new rooms quickly.
Give the main character a hurt voice sound after taking damage.
Improve the image quality of the "Level Up" text that gets displayed.
Dullhammer hit box increases a bit when he drops his spiked mace. I ended up taking more damage from him because I was touching him then getting hit by his attack. Mainly cus his right hand comes in and touches you.
Would space the enemies a little bit in each room making sure whatever zone you are coming from a enemy can see you.
Had those Crystal "hearts" clip into a wall and I couldn't obtain it after smashing a lamp near a wall.
Feedback on the menu system.
So it works fine but there is few things I would improve on.
Have a 3D character model load where the drawing is when you first open the menu. (Witcher 3 menu) Have the 3D model display the weapon she has equipped. Since she doesn't actually display any gear I would just display the weapon shes using.
Crystals/Shards
Basically, make more crystal icons. Don't just color swap them.
Was a bit of missing lighting effects that should of been added in between zones and the rain and clouds could use some more work.
Clouds looked flat in the cut scene before the boss fight.
It would be nice to see the rain land on the floor or onto objects and openings of the deck from outside.
The main characters ribbons that are her would clip through the floor when she would duck. I would either animate it where it doesn't clip through or add more collusion detection on the bottom of her ribbons.
Demo could of used FULL HP/MP recover when you level up.
Be nice to see the item icon come outta the chest when you open it.
The slime enemies on top of ceiling need a attack. (Bark or Downward grab)
Again, the demo was a lot of fun. I will be looking forward to it.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jun 23, 2016 17:46:29 GMT -6
Anyone else notice they completely got rid of the doll house look? The tilt is almost gone in fact. It's pretty close to being straight on and it gives it quite the nice 2d feel to it. Im glad they seemed to listen when it came to those complaints, it looks great now Yeah, one of the things I've brought up elsewhere when people try to compare MN9 to Bloodstained is how IGA has taken community feedback into consideration during development, and this is one of the most visible changes along those lines(aside from the shader itself). I'm really happy with the way things are going on this game. |
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Post by blackarm on Jun 23, 2016 17:58:16 GMT -6
The foreground and background pieces NEED to be seperated more. I couldn't find the next area because it required jumping on platforms that blending in to the room.
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Post by milkshakes00 on Jun 23, 2016 18:03:42 GMT -6
I haven't read anything else in the thread, and this is my first post, but here are my opinions: 1. I'd like the game to be a little bit faster paced. It seems slow, even with back dash. 2. Some entrances/exits were seriously hard to see, some of the foreground stuff blends in too well with the background. Specifically the last one leading to the boss, I didn't even notice until I accidentally jumped on the net on my second or third run around the ship. I didn't have access to the map because I was using a Steam controller to play. 3. Steam controller default profile, don't forget one!  4. The last boss was incredibly easy. I assume this is intended for a demo/a first phase thing, but jeez.. I didn't even get touched once. Much too slow. And those boobs were... a bit much, IMO. I like boobs. But lmao. |
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jun 23, 2016 18:05:57 GMT -6
venat A couple of comments on your suggestions: - Dynamic lighting and shadows would be terrible for a game like this. It pretty much destroys the 2D illusion. Arc System Works did a panel at GDC last year that explains this and other issues with making 2.5D look closer to 2D.
- Not too keen on the idea of holding down a button for a stronger attack since that breaks the flow of combat, but I believe the idea is that there will be some weapons or abilities that will have special attacks available via button combos(like SF2's Hadouken). Not sure if that's confirmed or just an idea that was being tossed around.
- Not sure that a 3D model for the menu is needed or even desirable. In fact, I'd personally go the other direction and give her the appearance of being in an actual portrait painting(something along the lines of this), with completely different portraits unlockable along with the unlockable alternate outfits.
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Post by earthfield on Jun 23, 2016 18:51:47 GMT -6
Oh, kinda unrelated request, but part of the build. Can we get the music used in this build? The Galleon track was amazing, I found myself humming it after playing the Demo.
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purifyweirdshard
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Calling from Heaven
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 23, 2016 19:05:02 GMT -6
Well, having played more, I only have a few things to add that I haven't seen said much elsewhere, but first: I do think that some frames could be added to the backdash/less leniency on cancel windows and that would be fine. I still don't necessarily think it's too good or broken, but maybe for the sake of making normal attack recovery a slightly more meaningful consideration. The BDC movement is probably a little faster than ideally intended, but not by that much. Anyways... Astaroth, the roses fall like  s! ahhhhhh. yesssss. They're not individual petals (kind of like falling "leaves") like I was imagining, but being full blooms makes them more recognizable for what they are at least. I like Miriam's post-sword swing pose where she holds the sword for a couple of seconds, but wish she held that pose a little bit longer...just because I like it so much, and it seems natural she would. Hm, what else...I like how it's shaping up overall. I like how colorful and how much the boss pops, it's a great contrast to the browns and grays of everything else around, just something huge and eye-catching to observe in comparison. The ghost ship is at its best when the purplish lighting of the lanterns comes in mixed with the varying details of the background. In those moments, I feel like I'm really in a 'vania. It's hard to express that feeling, but the way those roses are falling and the animations are hitting it so very close. It's great. They're on the right path. |
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Post by cocomonk on Jun 23, 2016 19:06:55 GMT -6
I'm keeping my initial post to the top things. I might create a follow-up post with secondary feedback, but these are the top things I wanted to pass on relating to the demo:
What worked the best: The controls. It was absolutely critical for this type of game that the controls work extremely well out of the gate. Guess what? They did.
What didn't work well: It looked to me like when the camera had to move, the frame rate dropped just a little or was inconsistent. It didn't seem to me like the action was as smooth as when the camera wasn't panning. I personally have a motion sickness sensitivity, and this fact, combined with the fact that this level was actually pitching back and forth slightly due to being on a boat, caused my motion sickness to trigger a bit. I would be interested to hear if anyone else is seeing this.
What puzzled me: The only thing that threw me for a loop, interestingly, were the Kung Fu boots. I didn't initially tag them as being a weapon, so I was looking everywhere but the weapon slot to figure out where they were. I thought they had disappeared completely for a bit. (Once I did figure it, I was actually delighted to see that equipping the weapon changed her model some).
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Post by Marie-France on Jun 23, 2016 19:58:50 GMT -6
Thanks for the demo! Having a taste of E3 is great.
Only problems I had was while using the joystick for movement, I would often move it down slightly during combat and crouch/dash by accident. Also the Spinning lion head with legs (forgot the name sorry) get stuck a lot between platform making them really easy to kill or avoid.
Really looking forward to play more.
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Post by pullig on Jun 23, 2016 20:01:51 GMT -6
I liked almost everything about this demo. The game is looking great and I felt playing what I wanted when I backed the project.
The only thing is I think it is too easy, maybe it's because it's an early stage of development or it is only a demo, but I have to say this.
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Post by Scars Unseen on Jun 23, 2016 20:17:42 GMT -6
So continuing to play the demo, I really do have to reiterate that the Right Stick aiming bothers me a lot, to the point where I don't even bother using directional aim except to light that one cannon. Every time I've tried, I reflexively try to aim with the left stick and end up getting hit instead of killing the enemy. The problems, I believe, are twofold. First, pretty much the entire game, you'll be hitting the ABXY(or equivalent) buttons with your thumb, but if you want to use directional aim, you have to move from that position to using your thumb on the stick, breaking the flow of combat and preventing any easy or comfortable way of aiming while jumping. Secondly, anyone who has been gaming for a long time has pretty much been trained by 2D platformers to have aim and movement work on the same axis. Super Metroid is probably the easiest to remember example, but Super Castlevania IV also works. The only benefit I see of having aim on a separately controlled axis is the ability to aim in a different direction from your movement, and I don't really think that benefit is worth the loss in response time and fight against muscle memory that it brings with it. At the very least, I'd like to have the option of rebinding movement and aim to the same stick. EDIT: And before anyone brings up the fact that we've been using dual stick for 3D games for a long time now, let me point out the following: - Those games also typically use the shoulder buttons as the primary action buttons
- 3D movement has different requirements than 2D movement
- It's not really the same. In modern 3D games, they have Forward/Backward movement on one stick and Right/Left strafing on the other. Try one of the early 3D games that put all movement on one stick and aim on the other. There's a reason we don't do that anymore.
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Post by kazoku=youkoso on Jun 23, 2016 20:21:07 GMT -6
Please use a softer or no sound effect when jumping, there's too much noise when bunny hopping/tapping jump repeatedly, like in the ship or in shallow water. Maybe include a minimum high per tap so you can't overuse bunny hop attack.
Maybe include a diagonal/up attack like the downward one with the sword; you would have the option of doing that or hopping then attacking.
It would be nice if Miriam had a walk animation before transitioning going into run for when she is turning around or moving from stationary, maybe a slight speed difference between the two states.
Rain should hit the boat and Miriam/enemies or have dust/water particle effects when she walks.
Including partial map in the upper right like Muramasa/Odin Sphere would be nice.
Kind of feel the menus are a little too sterile.
Backdash canceling is fun hopefully you can do it with X backdash Y crouch repeatedly like Shanoa can in Harmony of Despair.
Better yet offer people who like to backdash to cancel animations a challenge; after backdashing if the backdash button is pressed again before the animation finishes within a defined window they will dash forward. This forward dash state can be cancelled into anything.
I really enjoyed some of the quirks in Harmony of Despair like the downward jumpkicking attack to speed up moving across the map as well as things such as Jonathan Morris's command dash/Sonic Strike to move quickly across the map.
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Post by fluffyquack on Jun 23, 2016 20:49:29 GMT -6
I'm a huge fan of Igavania games and I'm loving what I played in the demo. There's been a lot of Metroidvania games made by indie developers, but I feel nothing has come even remotely close to Symphony of the Night or the DSvanias, and I'm super excited about Bloodstained after playing the demo. This has already been mentioned by other people, but I really hope the final game reads a list of resolutions supported by your monitor from Windows, and uses that to create the list of available resolutions ingame. Hardcoding a set of resolutions is an extremely bad habit I see way too many developers do. Hopefully this is only the case because this is an early demo. On the bright side, it's not too difficult to get around via modding. For instance, here's a screenshot of the game running at 5120x2880: www.fluffyquack.com/temp/RON-Win64-Shipping%202016-06-24%2004-26-40-758.jpgSpeaking of which, has the developer ever spoken about their opinion on modding? I noticed all of the files for the game are unencrypted, which I appreciate, and I hope is the case for the final game too. I'm tempted to mess around with the demo files as I'm noticing some interesting stuff there. Then again, I would feel bad if it's something the developer would disapprove of. |
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echizenken
New Blood
Let us go out this evening for pleasure. The night is still young.
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Let us go out this evening for pleasure. The night is still young.
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Post by echizenken on Jun 23, 2016 21:00:41 GMT -6
First of all, congratulations to the team and all the backers for making this happen. The Demo has exactly what you expect from a spiritual successor of Castlevania. I just have two minor suggestions. For me, game play and control responsiveness were the top priority this time, and thus: 1. The turning animation is great, but it takes a considerable amount of time and leaves you vulnerable to attacks. I'm guessing that as we progress in the game, enemies will get harder and harder, that's why being able to turn around faster is crucial. 2. The directional spells (in the demo, the fire cannon shard) should be able to help you get out of tight situations, meaning that, you should be allowed to use it while running. Currently it stops you right on the spot. Again, these are just suggestions and I just hope I was able to help you guys. Keep it up!  |
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Zucriy Amsuna
Loyal Familiar
I want my Vorpal Spectral Blade of Doom.
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Post by Zucriy Amsuna on Jun 23, 2016 21:04:07 GMT -6
Here are my thoughts so far:
The attack animation has a bit too much lag afterward, but that's a gameplay design decision that would distance the game from something like SotN. I do like how the quick two-hit combo exists: attack while falling and immediately attack again after landing. The timing is different than SotN, but it's totally doable. Awesome! I also like how fluid the quick jump-attack is; you don't ever need to stop if you need to attack something! So far, so good. I hope they don't remove that kind of functionality.
When you walk up to a wall, she goes through it a little more than expected. I'm not sure if anything will be done about it, but it doesn't really matter; it's just an observation.
In the menu, you can ever-so-slightly see the bottom of her butt. Looking at the model, I think it's a bit too low; the butt should be a little higher. (If I'm wrong, could someone draw an x-ray outline of where here body would be that would show the butt that low? I don't dislike it; it just seems...awkwardly low.)
A quick turning animation doesn't exist; it uses the normal/slow one by default. The result is if you quickly turn around, she's moving when she should instead be still.
The neat pose after she kicks has a slight problem: her raised foot vibrates. This is especially visible when she's wearing the Kung-fu Shoes. I don't know if this is because of the ship, my computer, or something else. Does anyone else see this?
The boss' chest is...certainly interesting. I'm not saying I dislike it, but I think it takes away from the artistic value. It was quite a surprise, and it doesn't seem to fit. It's too silly looking. I don't care what happens with this, though; it's just my small opinion about it. Some people agree; some don't. It does make me wonder what some of the other enemies will look like if there's a huge-breasted boss at the beginning...
The title screen is nice. I always imagined that it would go to the title screen like that, with the music starting, then after a while of no player actions, it would fade to some gameplay or cutscene stuff as it follows the music. I think this is the best way to present an introductory video--entirely optional, and we don't need to keep pressing through it every time we load up the game. The music also seems to be made for this; there should be some movie action during those epic parts! Of course, that's a later-development thing; I'm just saying it now in case it doesn't happen; I don't want the song to be wasted...
Great job on the demo! I love the art style, the gameplay isn't bad, and the music is wonderful.
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Post by clessy on Jun 23, 2016 21:05:50 GMT -6
Pretty impressive from first impression however, 2 things I'd really like to see improved.
Colors. The game may have bright colors used but the over all look of the areas is washed out. It doesn't feature enough contrast. The areas arent dark enough and the lights don't cause enough blooming effect. Its just a little to bright looking for CV style game.
Second. Kicks way to damn slow. That kicking animation could be almost double the speed.
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Post by icyberg on Jun 23, 2016 21:30:21 GMT -6
If you could, could you please add a way for those with motion sickness to enjoy the game? My girlfriend was playing the game just now, and as soon as she saw the level she immediately got motion sickness. If there was an option for something like that, could you please add it in? Hey, I felt the same motion sickness, I had to play farther from the screen, it may be that the scroll is too fast, not too soft or both? Please consider this issue, it may be relevant for many people. Regards  Both screen and the boat wavering, I hope maybe there will be an option for those with motion sickness so that they may enjoy the game even if it's at the cost of minor visuals. |
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Post by John Rabbit on Jun 23, 2016 21:44:30 GMT -6
Broadly I want to state that I think the demo is pretty great. It is not perfect, but it shows a LOT of promise and I'm really excited to play the the finished product.
Here's a quick rundown of what I liked/disliked:
Liked:
+The music, fantastic!
+Overall the look of the game (3D models on a 2D plane) looks sharp, I like the amount of detail in the environment
+The combat is good, I like how different attack types (Bash/Slash) work differently on different enemies. The shards seem cool and I like how they have more use than just combat (lighting the cannon fuse)
+The level design and traversal is classic Igavania, awesome!
+The back dash
+The enemy designs and their mechanics, I like how you can dodge the Dullahammer's mace if you get in close enough
+The effects around leveling up and the shard absorption are great!
+The details of seeing Miriam wearing the headband, presumably the cloak changes appearance too
Disliked:
-Miriam feels slow in her movements and her attacks
-The boss fight was rather mundane and not very challenging
-Did not like the sexualized boss design
-The slide feels too short, the one area in the demo where you slide should be covered by a single slide move
-It was a little too easy to accidentally crouch/slide
-I'd like to see different armor pieces change Miriam's appearance too
-Some of the platforms were a little hard to see/notice
-It'd be nice if the weapons had a short combo rather than the same attack animation over and over, a quick 1-2 slash or 1-2 kick
There's probably more I'm forgetting both good and bad, but I am VERY pleased by what I played in the demo. Can't wait for the return of IGA!
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Post by JorgonQ on Jun 23, 2016 21:48:31 GMT -6
It is really cool that backers get to check out the Demo via Steam, thanks for that. I like that there are multiple weapon types (shoes and sword). It gives the game depth, replayability, and customization. I, too, am a fan of the menu screen. I feel it is simple but pretty. I enjoyed the combat that was present, although the big knight seemed a little easy. I really liked how the seama climbed up the side and jumped onto the deck. The only thing I'm uncertain of is taking damage when I slide. It seems like a reasonable avenue for the set up of combos but taking damage from it is a detractor. I noticed a few times when moving that when I stopped I didn't come to a stop right away while other times I did. I assume that is not supposed to happen, so just a heads up there. Other than that, this looks like an awesome game and I can't wait until the final version is out.
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Post by meexa on Jun 23, 2016 21:58:56 GMT -6
1. we need a forward dash
2. a optional faster run ability would be nice
3. I'm noticing the attacks only has 1 attack pattern instead of multiple. Which most staple action games have. This is the most important one to me.
4. The boss design was awesome and hopefully we get more like that, no need to be shy. Feel free to be more edgy and push the envelope.
Keep up the great work and thank you.
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s! ahhhhhh. yesssss. They're not individual petals (kind of like falling "leaves") like I was imagining, but being full blooms makes them more recognizable for what they are at least.
yey