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Post by Overlord on May 30, 2019 14:50:34 GMT -6
Advertising content as exclusive to a backing period, and then offering that content to anyone years after all the money was collected counts as honesty these days? Must be a good time to be a business owner.
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Post by Overlord on May 29, 2019 22:59:14 GMT -6
Jesus Christ the drama never ends! As a $125 backer I voted for everything being available for everyone. I hate gatekeeping content and I didn’t back this game just to get a fucking exclusive weapon and boss fight. I backed this project to help get the spiritual successor to my favorite game of all time get made. It’s nice I’m getting that extra content too but I don’t care if they’re selling it for $10 for everyone else. I really don’t care. And to those claiming this is the same as “stealing from your backers” need to take a big glass of grow the eff up and stop being so entitled. I can’t wait for the game to come out so we can all put this embarrassing episode behind us. You simply need to learn that your way isn't the only way. I backed this game because IGA's Castlevanias easily make up one of my favorite series, and it's the only one that has been missing for the past ten years, so naturally there's been a bit of a void for me. But the Kickstarter didn't require that to be the reason. It didn't require any reason. You, and everyone else acting like you, have no right to tell anyone else why they should have backed the game. If they didn't want people to back for a Mac or Linux version, then they shouldn't have offered one. If they didn't want people to back for exclusive content, then they shouldn't have offered any. And I wonder, if you hate "gatekeeping" so much, why did you back a game that was offering such content? So you're allowed to support something you're against, and you have a problem with other people that don't just accept what they're against. That's odd, to say the least.
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Post by Overlord on May 28, 2019 10:48:49 GMT -6
There have been many people who suggested that I wasn't nearly as screwed as I said, because I could sell my copy of the game and backer perks for more than I backed, and now, thanks again to 505, I can't even do that. GOG has the game for $35. 505's offer was to convert to a physical copy. Who's going to wait for a physical copy + backer kit, pay shipping, take the risk that the seller is lying, etc. when you can just buy a retail copy and the suddenly not-so-exclusive content for ten bucks more?
Regarding piracy in general, there will always be people who don't want to pay for anything, and have no moral issues with stealing other people's work. Those people tend to be downloaders and not people who crack the games.
The people that do the cracking, though, have a variety of reasons for doing it. Some are against DRM, others feel that publishers charge too much for their games and cite piracy as the reason, so they feel justified stealing because paying customers have already "paid" for the piracy. Really what it comes down to is this: is it OK to cheat and steal to get what you want? Well, 505, is it okay? Or are you "not engaging" me any more because you know you're wrong?
PUBLISHERS LOSE THEIR RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PIRACY WHEN THEY'VE STOLEN FROM THEIR BACKERS.
Alright, well, in another thread Arikado mentioned one suggestion- since its likely 505 will be producing additional dlc and expansions in the future, as the survey indicated people want story expansions and more costumes (the most popular choices for that question), if they were to give 60+ backers "season passes" for that content, would you be able to sell that? Like, say some time down the line they release the Vampire and Valkyrie costumes for Miriam along with an epilogue area and maybe an expansion for a secondary characters story, for a value of 30 dollars. Would you be able to sell codes for that and get a return for your 60 dollars? I wouldn't be so sure of that. That's a long list of content that they still need to work on. I can't imagine them finishing it anytime soon, and I also can't imagine them wanting to work on this game for another two+ years, regardless of how well it sells.
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Post by Overlord on May 28, 2019 8:34:46 GMT -6
PUBLISHERS LOSE THEIR RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PIRACY WHEN THEY'VE STOLEN FROM THEIR BACKERS.
I completely agree with you. Backers are expected to give all the respect in the world, yet the company is not expected to show even the slightest amount of respect. We live in a strange world.
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Post by Overlord on May 28, 2019 8:32:28 GMT -6
Blaming piracy is comical, really. As if they had no idea every game gets pirated until now. Why even release a GOG version if piracy is such an issue? Why make any decision based on what pirates might do? I don't understand this "non-backers are entitled to the full game" mindset/excuse either. I've seen a lot of complaints about download content in general on most video game forums I've visited over the years, and it's always met with "the game you buy is a full game, and you are not entitled to anything extra, which is what download content is". This is the only situation I've ever seen where apparently the game is not a full game because of one fourth wall breaking boss and one weapon, so everyone is entitled to have access, otherwise they won't be able to enjoy the game and be forced to pirate it. Is that the logic that's being used? Is that the type of person that decisions are being made for? They had no idea this would be an issue when they were planning the Kickstarter? Anything to deride the fact that the company has no problem false advertising in order to make some extra money.
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Post by Overlord on May 26, 2019 9:31:19 GMT -6
.
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Post by Overlord on May 26, 2019 9:29:17 GMT -6
You don't want any negative connotation, you want to convince people like me that what they've done is no problem but you cannot deny the facts. That's another good way to put it.
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Post by Overlord on May 26, 2019 9:23:25 GMT -6
I came here to voice my disappointment with the false advertising/dishonesty. That doesn't even have anything to do with any opinions. You can love the company and accept dishonest and sleazy practices all you want. I'm at least smart enough to know it's fruitless to try and stop anyone that is so biased from doing that. But that's not going to change the fact that they false advertised, and I haven't seen any real "engagement to the contrary". All I've seen are insults and/or disingenuous strawman arguments such as "you didn't lose any content". Eventually the posts in this particular thread progressed to you accusing me of saying you didn't read the thread (which I obviously wouldn't know, doesn't even matter, and didn't even have anything to do with what I was conveying) and trying to paint me as being "inappropriate". It's bizarre, even for an official video game forum. You saw what you chose to see, we all do that. I hope you can still enjoy the game. I'm a fan first and I will always want to participate in that capacity because that's what I am. I would step down if I had to in order to keep doing that, but I don't feel that's an option either for me because there's work to do that I'm passionate about - and the last few days has been a lot of work. My apologies. I will also endeavor more to not have a perceived bias. I can say for certain that I didn't choose to see the company's dishonesty. It's there for everyone to see.
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Post by Overlord on May 25, 2019 9:52:40 GMT -6
I haven't read your posts, so no, I don't know if you're one of those people, nor do I care. I didn't come here to make a list of names. And now you're assuming that I'm trying to insult you and saying you didn't read the thread, even though I did nothing of the sort. You accused me of talking about you even though I've never quoted you or mentioned you, and my further point was that this thread speaks for itself. Not that anyone in particular hasn't read it. If I had something to say to you, I would have. But if you want to talk about inappropriate, then look no further than a moderator allowing someone to use insults simply because you agree with that person. I have to say, after reading this post of yours, it does sound like you're trying to tell me you're biased. If so, then we have no business with each other, as I'd rather not waste my time. I assumed you were reading and considering things, from your stated overall harsh judgment of the situation as a whole. I think that was a reasonable mistake for me to make, I by default think that's what we all do. I believe what you're conveying here is that you want to say what you want to say and defer engagement to the contrary as useless/disingenuous. That's not how I would want to use a forum and get a productive experience out of it, but that's your decision. Selfish/petty aren't quite insults and don't count as infarctions, but are not language I would like to see used. That was the statement I gave earlier and it'd be true of anyone using those. I don't solely run this place though, so it would be a review from the mods for them to decide if someone had reported it. edit: I see that when Pure Miriam said this, it was not directed at you, but part of his summary of thoughts on the subject, and he denied an argument about it when you quoted him. I was thinking all this time he said this to you directly. That must be why I thought I had missed it, because I'm pretty sure I read that bit of the post before. If you're done with me, that's fine, and we can drop this. You've been around a while and I don't want to harm a fan's experience with the game. I came here to voice my disappointment with the false advertising/dishonesty. That doesn't even have anything to do with any opinions. You can love the company and accept dishonest and sleazy practices all you want. I'm at least smart enough to know it's fruitless to try and stop anyone that is so biased from doing that. But that's not going to change the fact that they false advertised, and I haven't seen any real "engagement to the contrary". All I've seen are insults and/or disingenuous strawman arguments such as "you didn't lose any content". Eventually the posts in this particular thread progressed to you accusing me of saying you didn't read the thread (which I obviously wouldn't know, doesn't even matter, and didn't even have anything to do with what I was conveying) and trying to paint me as being "inappropriate". It's bizarre, even for an official video game forum.
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Post by Overlord on May 24, 2019 17:27:58 GMT -6
I'm not even sure why you think that was about you. Obviously each person/post speaks for itself, so unless anything is deleted, all anyone needs to do is read the thread. My impression that you were including me there comes from - I'm one of the people who has engaged in defense/explaining things, so it would follow that if no potential defense exists, everything I've said includes the disingenuous, strawman/insults thing, knowing the point but damning it, etc. Maybe you hadn't read my posts yet. In that case especially, telling me to "read the thread noob" is extra inappropriate. I haven't read your posts, so no, I don't know if you're one of those people, nor do I care. I didn't come here to make a list of names. And now you're assuming that I'm trying to insult you and saying you didn't read the thread, even though I did nothing of the sort. You accused me of talking about you even though I've never quoted you or mentioned you, and my further point was that this thread speaks for itself. Not that anyone in particular hasn't read it. If I had something to say to you, I would have. But if you want to talk about inappropriate, then look no further than a moderator allowing someone to use insults simply because you agree with that person. I have to say, after reading this post of yours, it does sound like you're trying to tell me you're biased. If so, then we have no business with each other, as I'd rather not waste my time.
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Post by Overlord on May 24, 2019 15:27:01 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard There has been no name calling in this thread so far, but Overlord mentioned Pure Miriam "throwing insults around" when all he did was call the people who were complaining about this situation petty and selfish. "Petty, selfish, and self centered" are absolutely baseless insults directed towards anyone that isn't happy with the situation. I knew they were going to overlook it, but it's absolutely an insult, especially when you consider it's being said towards people that value honesty.
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Post by Overlord on May 24, 2019 15:26:46 GMT -6
I'm not expecting anything extra as a $60 backer, certainly not a refund, and I don't think anything is deserved except for maybe an official acknowledgement on the issue in a future update or something. Something about the situation with $60 backers, who rightfully feel they over-pledged based on promises of exclusive content which for one reason or another needed to be changed, wasn't worded/handled appropriately. I'm not going to say we need an apology, as that might be too far. Again, not expecting anything or think we deserve anything further than what we pledged for; that was never in question. I'm also fine that everyone gets to enjoy all the content, as it's definitely a win for everyone that wants to play the game. I'm with that. Angel-Corlux do you think you can do this? edit: Overlord wait what, where are my strawman things and name calling? Or you're not talking about me I'm not even sure why you think that was about you. Obviously each person/post speaks for itself, so unless anything is deleted, all anyone needs to do is read the thread.
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Post by Overlord on May 24, 2019 13:40:58 GMT -6
Hilarious to read through all the comments about "get over it, who cares, you still get content, nothing is being taken away from you, life goes on, 'nontroversy' lol", etc. Missing the main point entirely. I don't speak for all the people upset about the DLC, and I do agree some people commenting on Kickstarter yesterday were going a bit overboard. What I do know is people were told they could back as little as $28 for a digital copy of the game, or $60 and up for bonus incentives including only way to make sure you were getting in-game content that was not going to be available elsewhere. A minimum $32 increase in backing amount was required for what we were told would exclusive in-game content. Here we are 4 years later and find out that the content that was part of incentives many of us put up at least an extra $32 for, would be available day one for as little as $10 more. If you don't see an issue with people (particularly the $60 backers) feeling a little ripped off and calling out 505 on it, not much is going to change your mind so no need to try. And those saying Curse of the Moon is a $10 game that backers paid for as part of their pledge, no, it wasn't. It was a free unlock reward for any backer at $28 tier and above. It cost $10 for anyone who didn't back at all. Not the same thing. As I touched on earlier, you can be sure that most, if not all of these people, aren't actually missing the point. They're just being disingenuous because they want to defend the company at all costs, and there really is no defense for this false advertising. So they decide to resort to these strawman arguments and personal insults to make it seem right, which never works. If anything, it's further proof that the situation is wrong. It happened to the Mac/Linux backers. It happened when backers complained that Curse of the Moon codes were nowhere in sight while people that didn't back the project were playing. The community in general is just very biased. Which basically guarantees that 505 Games/ArtPlay will continue to make similar decisions in the future.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 14:25:20 GMT -6
"We" didn't agree to anything. This isn't a hivemind, nor was the survey even limited to backers. And again, landslide or not, this does not change the fact that it's false advertising, which is the issue here. You make a good point if the survey was not just sent to backers.
That's what i thought it was but I'm not sure to be honest.
Still, selling DLC to other people does not diminish the value of what you get. I would understand if you were a disappointed Linux user. But this just looks like nagging for the sake of negativity... I hope you can still enjoy the game one day. All you needed was ANY gmail account in order to take the survey. A friend of mine took the survey and was never even going to buy the game, let alone back it. But at this point I cannot believe how many times I need to explain what the issue is. It's bad enough we have people like "Pure Miriam" throwing insults at anyone that isn't cheering for this false advertising, but to keep pretending it's a different issue is just as dishonest as the issue itself. I have to believe that people like you actually do understand the simple concept of false advertising, but since there's nothing you can really say about it, you pretend it's a different issue entirely. I hope that people can deal with that, instead of presenting strawman arguments just for the sake of defending.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 12:16:05 GMT -6
Overlord : Maybe you missed the survey but we (backers) agreed on selling the exclusive staff as DLC by a landslide! "We" didn't agree to anything. This isn't a hivemind, nor was the survey even limited to backers. And again, landslide or not, this does not change the fact that it's false advertising, which is the issue here.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 12:02:22 GMT -6
Overlord I stand by my arguments, my point wasn't about refunds my point was that plans change and that we made investments not pre ordered already existing products. Regardless the decisions made so I won't argue the point. I do sincerely regret you feel cheated but I'm glad the content will be available to all and will help increase the success of the game. I've seen alot of hot head on the Kickstarter comments section going on how they are going to tell all their friends not to back the game because the content didn't stay exclusive so I felt I should provide a counter voice. Well, your argument makes no sense then, because "plans change" doesn't tell us anything. If they had said that their plans changed and there would no longer be a Switch version, I'm pretty sure there would be a legion of angry people demanding answers, and that wasn't even part of the Kickstarter. The fact is that they were under no obligation to sell this content, especially since it was advertised as exclusive, but they chose to anyway. False advertising in order to make some extra money they otherwise wouldn't have. No argument is going to change that.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 11:38:35 GMT -6
Overlord Some things to remember is that 505 did not make the decision to make the content exclusive and that plans change, by your logic since they "promised" a Wii U version there should be no Switch version and they should be selling a Wii U game in 2019. At the very least your not actually losing anything. Also there are plenty of backers that wanted the content to be available to all, it wasn't solely none backers. While it's silly to think that 505/Artplay won't be happy about the extra money, it's equally silly (to me) to think that this was done to weasel out an extra $32 out of some 20,000+ people. No one tried to rip you off, your money went into make a game that will be out in less then a month. It doesn't matter who initially decided to advertise the content as exclusive. The fact is that's what it was advertised to be. And the issue here clearly isn't about losing anything, but rather the false advertising. It's all about money; first trying to lure people in with the term "exclusive", and then selling content that they otherwise wouldn't make anymore money from. The Wii U and Vita backers were offered refunds, so you might want to rethink your comparison there.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 10:25:08 GMT -6
I think it is fair to charge for backer exclusive content and offer it for free for backers, that's the best, most reasonable and decent choice. People know me here, and knows that i'm always calm and respecful, but please, i can't believe this. There is a limit for someone to be selfish, petty and self-centered.That's complete and utter nonsense. If anyone is being selfish, it's those that have no problem false advertising in order to gain some extra money. There's nothing "decent" about telling people they need to back a Kickstarter in order to have access to certain content, and then giving everyone access to that content after all the money is collected. They were under no obligation to offer exclusive content. A lot of thought and planning clearly went into the Kickstarter. They didn't need to advertise it as exclusive, but they did anyway. If you think anyone that sees this as a negative is selfish, petty, and/or self centered, then you're clueless.
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Post by Overlord on May 23, 2019 8:11:53 GMT -6
It's very disappointing that pretty much none of the stretch goals will be there at launch, and content that was advertised as "backer exclusive" when money was needed is now conveniently available to anyone, but I had expected all of this to happen, so at least it isn't a surprise.
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Post by Overlord on May 21, 2019 16:51:13 GMT -6
I have already started accessing the morphogenetic field in order to promote Bloodstained.
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