...For me it is about the playable characters. Why is that? It is because the whole lore depends on it. Who is bound to get more importance vs who is going to be a NPC... simply put, either fighting against demons and risking his/her life or just giving quests/needing to be rescued?
Many things come from that too. A character theme (yes, enemy characters will get one for sure, but would you give one to one that ended being a NPC?), epic lines against enemies, a way lot more dedicated voiceovers, a wider range of dedicated character frames including jumping, attacking, special moves and reactions to pain and so on.
Will other characters gain access to forging? Yes, I believe they will have that (I do not want characters that do not evolve in terms of weapons and armor like in past igavanias), but it will be restricted to their weapon of choice. I don't see someone like Zangetsu using guns or axes (and yes, once again, I want him to be playable as well as Dominique. Two demon exterminators, one from the East, the other from the West; a clash in methods and values and motivations). Obviously, the shard system is Miriam's only. Will they be able to shapeshift? That's all to know.
My other choices were
Forging, as it's important to see how it will be done, will we get something different than in MMORPGs, numerous metroidvanias, Dawn of Sorrow and the like;
Weapons and items: How will you survive? What sort of lores are attached to items? Will there be anachronism issues?
Abilities and transformations: Not only offensive spells and attacks but also defensive ones, ways to progress as well (double jump, dash, backdash, special commands, ways to go past hard locks, etc.).
Enemies: Who/what will you face? Will there be absolutely new designs? How will they react to Miriam? Can there be adaptative enemies depending on health% or others monsters nearby?
As for the music, the prequel, the environments, the nightmare mode, the prequel and other ways to make Miriam and other characters fancy and the familiars, I am hopeful this will turn out very nicely. I sense these as a big bonus. For me, playability and the richness in moves and what is to face or interact with counts for me the most.
Yes, I also believe that the retro level will be a part of the castle, an ensemble of connected rooms, possibly small in nature. The rules will apply no matter what. Weapons and shards collected before entering will work there, albeit in a retro form (that's a lot of work to do!), shards, a 8 or 16-bit weapon, familiar(s), all usable outside... A retro boss (why not one returning from the prequel but in a different form?). Maybe even a retro-looking Miriam.
A secret code to play as retro Miriam would be cool too (probably a skin that can't be changed by costumes).
...And yes, I believe that the retro level is done by Inti Creates, for them to have at least showcased something for the main game! (haters will then complain the game wasn't in 2D form, but hey, it's how it is!)
These questions are quite hard to speculate on, so I'll try my best.
1) If forging is recipe-only, people will complain there is not enough freedom in that feature. If it is trial and error, they will say that it's not original enough... Well, crafting in games never was original as idea, unless there is a special approach to it. I'd say that restrained trial and error with only feasible alchemy processes would be good. No chances to fail it either (unless you'd be able to find items to diminish that).
2) It's all about alchemy, so we are going to deal with alchemy circles, thus most probably if not surely deal with a mini-game. In the Lost Grimoire series (hidden object games), you had peculiar recipes to find/get given to create materials and solve puzzles at precise points. For example in the first, you had to rotate molecules to match what symbol is depicted in the drawing. Infinite moves, no time limit. The final one was tough. As long as it's not about a timer and that it's fun and engaging, I got no problems with it. Some lessons on alchemy and illustrious names would be even better.
3) I am very concerned about leveling gear up. As you can see, we already got equipment evolution. MMOs (like the one I play daily) sometimes deal with both gear refining and possibly forging to a higher tier. It is obvious to say that both features are time and resource-consuming and that the former is nothing else than gambling... If refining fails, the piece of equipment downgrades (but it's better than in my previous MMO where it literally had a chance to SHATTER). To prevent this, consumables to prevent it from happening were sold in boutique. Catch my drift?
Anyway, I'd be more okay with the "forging to a higher tier only" solution. It's about obvious that you lose all refining once you make it change shape... or then you have to wait until it's at max refining level before making it evolve... the lost potential would be a source of frustration.
4) I guess that finding a backer weapon as is would be too easy and make too much a difference with a normal one, unless there are fixed drawbacks, so I guess you'd have to forge them.
5) In fact, what would please me the most in there is to gain back a unique forging item you used for a ultimate weapon or armor part. You know... hoarders, rarity-collectors, completionists and all.
6) If the lore says we got to imbue monster essence, I guess it would be possible... But then again, people would say that it's not far from Yoko's soul infusion (Dawn of Sorrow nostalgia, anyone?)...
7) Balanced, like always. ^^
8) I don't think that alchemy should be done anywhere, let's make it usable at save points. Miriam has a pendant or such to teleport her to her lab to craft and back to the save point (also usable as fast warping)... Hmmm... Oh and returning to the village or having to talk to certain NPCs for forging is so boring, it can kill the mood. Yes, even with a warp point near the shop like in Portrait of Ruin or an item that makes you return to it at any time (CSOTN's Librarian*)
9) It's alchemy. I think you'd be able to craft all sort of things. Even materials from materials. Shards would be excluded, of course. Unless...
10) That would be the basis for element-imbued equipment. Yes. I see it happening.
*I'm interested in this, but you only buy jewels. Jerk. At least Hammer and subsequent ones did it correctly.
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2017 10:58:21 GMT -6 by Lestaroth
i dunno, ive never cooped a metroidvania and i rarely get to play cvhd, im more of a completionist though, so i do lots of grinding for items and exploration
I guess it would be a first for many of us, if we go for that mode. Of course story mode will be the core of the game. The rest is all bonus to me.
Grinding. Yes, I'm very familiar with it. As for exploration, the one game I've liked it the most indie-wise is Axiom Verge. You're allowed to exploit different methods to reach the same item/pathway (and there are loads of the former), it is very rewarding albeit tedious, but I digress.
I wonder if each player get their own loot (on their screen) or if they have to share. Perhaps this could be an option, leaving it up for players. The option could be the difficulty settings, where when you need to share it becomes more difficult. I also wanna see the map just stretch to a limit so you need to stick to each other. If one leaves a room, the next area will teleport that other player.
It worked fine in Diablo III, but that was in 3D. I think there will be great limitation in this type of co-op. Think about it, even Double Dragon on Nintendo 8bit had a wider area to play on when teaming up.
Do not expect another super zoomed-out giant random castle this time around guys.
In the MMO I play, it's set on "random" by default, as in items are distributed in turns, there is an option called "free", so they are attributed to whoever loots them. The party leader can choose between both. Of course that can lead to conflicts and denounciation in world chat. It's also worth noting that when two players are too far from each other, the one grabbing the items keeps all.
Teleporting like you said is a bit too much on the easy side... if it has to be enabled, I believe that some cooldown or a limited number of uses would prove smart. if not... it's open to abuse.
And yes, I do believe that it's like playing in story mode but with two people at the same time. If there is to be a zoom out, it surely would be one that wouldn't be too big.
Oh by the way, I have been also wondering what happens when one player experiences a connection time-out (or both), that would be quite dreadful.
Well Enk', of course it's better to enjoy the story mode first, I would do the same as well. I'm a bit like that too, I love to explore nooks and crannies to no end and talk to all NPCs in a MMO, to learn lores, even to see if there are funny lines, especially those that break the fourth wall. That's said, it's because I solo there. ^^
Ah sorry Arsenical, but polls can't be edited. I dreaded pushing that "add options for poll" and I didn't think of all possibilities back then, it seems. Yes, indeed, that is the finest illustration of rushing and efficiency to the max, people go for means but don't wait for/help others. I've witnessed that well enough. The lack of balance between HoD characters only made it worse. It's great to be patient, wait and assist/save others. If only it was more common in gaming communities, that would be great. Sadly many won't bother trying it, partly because they were converted into giving up on these principles.
Hello all, I've been thinking about the co-op mode while discussing various things in the Bloodstained discord (shameless plug time). Co-op is all about a tandem working together. That said, as for all modes involving team play, there is a minimum of mutual help, right?
...For me it depends. I'm used to be cautious especially when it comes to MMOs, as I don't run with randoms. The worst scenario involves being with rushers that won't bother waiting or acting together. I'm more on the cautious side (grinding if necessary), even if I tend to get a bit more reckless when I know I got solid backup (I know that enemies are defeated without trading damage, that I saved my game prior and that I own a sufficient number of potions and adequate equipment).
I also would make sure I'd be on the same page as the one accompanying me. Daredevil runs can be fun, when they're planned from the start... otherwise I'll consider them either as a failure in communication or plain sabotage (yes, some do that), even if of course mistakes happen. It would be too easy if it wasn't the case, right?
I don't think co-op mode will involve rankings, by the way. Risks of cheating would be too high.
So, what about you, Ladies and Gentlemen, what would be your usual way of tackling a metroidvania/igavania? Do you try to plan all in advance or just adapt to what the game offers you as challenge? What would you see in a perfect co-op mode partner? Would you change your playstyle with different circumstances?
Thank you for replying and participating to the poll! I'll put my vote now.
P.S.: I don't enjoy powerleveling others or being powerleveled (except when totally desperate in a MMO which about... never occurs ^^)
Last Edit: Aug 8, 2017 15:43:00 GMT -6 by Lestaroth
Huh? What do you mean, the campaign ended in May and they got well past the magician goal. At the last update, they were only $100 away from the knight character, which has probably been reached now or very soon.
Vincent... Knight. Yeah. Why did I think of mage then? And they're 837 bucks away from that stretch goal. It's not super guaranteed to my eyes.
Oh and a new update plus demo just arrived.
Last Edit: Aug 9, 2017 5:15:07 GMT -6 by Lestaroth
Man I haven't played pinball in a loooong time. There are plenty of ideas given the nature of Bloodstained and Castlevania but as far as spin off pinball games go the Pokemon ones are spin off finest to me. Wonder when they'll do another one.
The Kirby Pinball Land game was great too, it made even more sense when you know that Kirby got an ability named ball. I guess that those two worked really nicely, especially on the use of characters. Retro-treasures!
So I have a theory about the blue crystallized look. Idk if this has been discussed yet but there's a leveling system depending on how many of a shard you get. What if when you first get these summons they have this (weak form state) and once they advance they learn more and have more visual flair.
In sum, they would evolve. Yes, that would be plausible.
I will use this opportunity to delve into what we could have gotten familiar evolution-wise (what we will get will probably be idea #1, but #3 would be fair, too):
When it comes to familiars/pets/summons and evolution, there are usually the idea of growing up and getting new forms, like in Pokémon and Digimon (and many TCGs).
In some games, the familiars don't change at all, they just gain powers when they get stronger. That's a bit lazy to me, but it was quite the norm in old games. Nowadays more data can be stored and the processing abilities have changed, so it's easier to go for different pathways.
There is also the idea of a familiar becoming more tangible as in they are more used to staying in that form... but normally it's more about creatures that give a time-limited significant boost/cause damage to enemies then disappear. That said, if it's just about appearance and not summoning time, why not.
Enkeria , what about "familiars will grant passives"? That said, I believe that equipping them beforehand would be a tad annoying. Oh and used more than once... or having two passives, a situational one and one for battle/recovery, but also one active skill/spell (if not more).
I wonder what colors Vepar have now since they got in an changed it after the feedback. "tone down" .. or make it dull even? I wouldn't mind a gothic approach, keeping it navy blue and dark green (thinking on the theme of the ocean).
As long as there is no stupid censoring, I wouldn't mind... And yes, algae colors wouldn't pose any problem to me. (even neon ones)
Why Kappa in Bloodstained? During the kickstarter campaign, IGA drew a monster on the whiteboard (later becoming an updated design here:
- with a kappa as a tail. They joked about how the Kappa could not be in that monster due to restrictions, but it seems like the Kappa was a favorite somehow anyways. It is possible that Kappa, and/or this giant beast are in Bloodstained - Ritual of the Night?
I for one would love to slay some nasty Kappa monsters close to the waters.
I didn't know that his design was finalized, colors and all. Wow.
That said, that gatling gun arm seems... overkill. Heh heh. ...And that kappa tail, it reminds me of the scorpion's tail of the manticore. It won't seem to be practical though, since kappas become weak when they lose their head water.
Last Edit: Aug 7, 2017 4:21:08 GMT -6 by Lestaroth
I was just thinking about changing my #12 answer: I'd like references to things that happened on the forums, during the Kickstarter/streams, moments from shows they've done, etc. For example:
Bismark Kappa III, wall mac (or a different manifestation of IGA's mac experience), takeover, a reference to Mana herself, some kind of "train" which we could refer to as the "hype train!", Astaroth's idea above (item that costs the amount the KS raised), donuts!!!!!
This idea, especially!
Dominique (or Anna, hilariously): "That'll be exactly 5,545,991G."
Miriam: "Why does that specific number sound so familiar?"
(*The shop-owners just shrug)
I'd then just want Miriam to flood the shop with 1G coins. A fitting retribution. (It is not in dollars anymore? )
Since it's questions time, here is one I posted in discord, it's been haunting me for a while. I was encouraged to ask it here, so enjoy!
"What made 505 games accept Master Iga's plan while all others refused?" and as a subsidiary question: "How come any other publisher couldn't trust him?" I want to really know how he felt on finally getting a chance to prove himelf, not a basic "the market didn't want of his ideas" but also if 505 games really loved igavanias first or not.
As for Bloodstained proper:
Will we get enemies that will have different tactics (fleeing, trying to fuse with a monster nearby, try to heal themselves, jump around, block attacks, etc.)?
Can Miriam have the chance to claim something as really hers? A castle room, a gift from Gebel before he left, a good luck charm, etc.)
Are save points going to have different functionalities?
Will we get enemies that will have different tactics (fleeing, trying to fuse with a monster nearby, try to heal themselves, jump around, block attacks, etc.)?
I would like to see characters interact with each other even when the latter are not playable. The past special modes like Richter, Maria, the sisters, Albus were straightforward but devoid of a special feeling. (it doesn't help that there was no script for them back then)
Will characters have quirks, from adorable to totally deranged? I'd like that, they would then be more human.
Any chance for charged attacks? For example a rush strike with focus time, etc.
Are we going to get mini-games, a sound test, art gallery, create-a-scene (why not? just a setting and chars you can place here and there will do) and maybe... a song?
I was wondering if the game will have steampunk elements or not, if so, in which proportion?
What about more guest characters? Ajna from Indivisible comes to mind. Miriam in Indiv' would be splendid, too.
That's a lot to answer to now! take care!
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2017 12:28:46 GMT -6 by Lestaroth
Hello again and welcome aboard! I am glad you already enjoy our randomness in the Bloodstained discord. Feel free to share your videogame experience so we can relive some of that little nostalgia all together but also look forward to the future! (that and anything that crosses your mind)
Once again, I am certain that 'stained will be a massive success. Let's enjoy that ride!
I am also an opposition-crusher. Defeat all enemies, poke all walls, keep a keen eye on what's strange, that's me!
I'd only farm shards if I know I got a good backup (having used a save point). I am ambitious but careful, rarely reckless. I'd also be extra cautious on low health and no potions, or if expensive and hard to get ones are left. Got to be smart in the long run!
Thanks Enkeria for the signature picture!
castledan: ( it's a minor complaint but i like to voice opinions )
Aug 22, 2017 12:57:02 GMT -6
castledan: to me " making the biggest castle " meant making the biggest castle itself. I dig that they're making areas to build up to the big moment but as i said about hubs earlier..... the exploration element is what matters and finding how things connect
Aug 22, 2017 12:57:50 GMT -6
castledan: is part of the fun
Aug 22, 2017 12:57:52 GMT -6
Galamoth: castledan"I like to voice opinions" <- Don't we all?
Aug 22, 2017 12:58:11 GMT -6
Galamoth: I can admit that, about 2 years ago, I was actually mad about the decision to go for 3D character models. I was actually convinced for a short time that the 2D concept art was what they "promised" to use.
Aug 22, 2017 12:59:56 GMT -6
Galamoth: Then I found out for myself that it was justconcept art. IGA never "promised" that to be the case. That's what I get for listening to another person (whose name I won't mention) who was irrationally hating on the game.
Aug 22, 2017 13:01:43 GMT -6
Galamoth: Now, here I am, member since late June of 2015, feeling optimistic about this game's future despite some very minor complaints I've had in the past.
Aug 22, 2017 13:03:35 GMT -6
castledan: I think i said the opinion thing because I know i complain a lot but it's out of love and I do enjoy talking about the game. Criticisms are just easier to levy sometimes
Aug 22, 2017 13:11:43 GMT -6
ZeroSbr: castledan, it seems we have very similar opinions on IGAvanias. I think the "biggest castle" just means there will be one castle that is bigger than one of SotN's castles. Maybe they'll give us an inverted castle too, who knows.
Aug 22, 2017 16:51:18 GMT -6
revient: Im interested in seeing the other settings.
Aug 22, 2017 18:28:18 GMT -6
Yän: I'm still not sure that the village's and the ship's maps will not be connected to the castle's map. To me that still seems quite possible.
Aug 22, 2017 18:49:09 GMT -6
castledan: I imagine you start in the village ---> find out the ship can take you to the castle ---> ship crashes at the castle. Then you can use the teleport room to get back to the village
Aug 22, 2017 18:51:15 GMT -6
Yän: Haha I just remembered that we had already talked about this (in the shoutbox, too)
Aug 22, 2017 18:52:20 GMT -6
Yän: My point back then was that the village might also be on the castle island.
Aug 22, 2017 18:52:50 GMT -6
Yän: This made sense to me because the ship was presented to us as the tutorial level...
Aug 22, 2017 18:53:20 GMT -6
Yän: So naturally, we'd start the game with the tutorial level
Aug 22, 2017 18:53:45 GMT -6
Yän: And later we'd end up on the island with the village and the castle
Aug 22, 2017 18:54:24 GMT -6
Yän: The ship may end up transformed into a more friendly environment just sitting on the harbor. If you reached into the parts you couldn't reach before due to jump height etc. it might give you some hidden dangerous enemies...
Aug 22, 2017 18:56:04 GMT -6
Yän: Just some thoughts on how it could all be connected
Aug 22, 2017 18:56:17 GMT -6
Galamoth: Yän The Galleon Minerva being turned into a less-hostile area after reaching the island actually sounds like a better idea to me. It still being there [and intact] would give players the chance to explore it fully when they couldn't before.
Aug 22, 2017 20:54:52 GMT -6