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Post by Ciel on Jul 2, 2019 13:20:47 GMT -6
Since I don’t want to turn this into a briefing of the project’s history, I’ll cut it down to what is relevant, deep silver had the rights for bloodstained, as soon as mighty number 9 was released and crushed, they gave the rights back to artplay, distanced from inti and brought in 505 games, 505 commited to support the game and to honor the deal with the backers, . Where did you get this from? Sure, there were some rumors about it around the time the Kickstarter was up, but after that Deep Silver was not even once mentioned or rumored to have any relations with Bloodstained. I'm just legitimately curious about where you have got this information, so don't take it the wrong way. ... the first red light for me, was the poll, the open poll, used to assest the viability of selling the backer exclusive content, that poll that even today is up, is one of the pilars for stripping away the backer exclusive content, that’s under the lie that “selling the content had an overwhelming support”, I don’t wanna get fixed into all the fiasco that was this poll, so i’ll leave it there for now You may disagree with how the poll and everything about it was handled, but let me be clear here about something: once a digital content is out there in the internet, it's not exclusive anymore. Full stop. You can be certain that if that content had continued to be "exclusive", there would be mods, unofficial patch or something else to insert the same content for everyone's game. Heck, it probably would have started from a backer uploading it and making the content public. And at that stage, what's even the point of calling it "exclusive" anymore? That's just the reality of things, and you can't really blame anyone for it. If they are selling for that console, make the game run properly for that console, i backed for xbox one as well, that kind of game is a lot better on handhelds. Let just be clear that while you're right that they should make the game run properly, there's no such a thing of "a game that's right for one specific platform". I, for instance, hate handhelds with a passion and can't understand for life how someone is able to enjoy a comfortable gaming session with a handheld. So, at the end of the day, that's just opinions. Incidentally, I find it ironic how people last decade were fed up with Castlevania being launched only on handheld because of limited hardware, and now I'm seeing this kind of statement everywhere in the internet.
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Post by Ciel on Jul 1, 2019 23:47:37 GMT -6
Using crowdfunding for a sequel when the first game apparently is going well would just burn the goodwill of the community and the fanbase. It also would bring back some hurdles inherent with a Kickstarter: over-promising and bloatification of the project. Because, let's be honest here, an IGAvania doesn't need a Roguelike dungeon and online modes to be good. In my opinion, a sequel game should just drop all of that and focus on giving other playable characters plot and gameplay features of their own. Something like what Dawn of Sorrow did, but better. Now that would be sick.
That said, I still wish that limited physical goodies are going to be a thing if a sequel happens. I'm all in for artbooks, posters, soundtrack CDs, slipcases/sleeves, etc, and the fanbase is willing to pay a premium to get them from what I can tell.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 30, 2019 10:43:55 GMT -6
I really wonder how some people weren't noticing input lag when he measured the Switch version to have it at 140ms. That's incredibly high!
Good video as always, as a subscriber of their channel I'm happy to see that at least not everything is bad news on the technical side of things.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 29, 2019 1:10:43 GMT -6
repeatable collision issue in inferno caves i figured out after I recording, you don't need to high jump, just a normal double jump there while using the ninja run shard. Speed runners are already exploiting a similar glitch to beat the game faster lol. Honestly this kind of thing might as well leave it as is, SotN is full of these and people have fun figuring out ways to glitch the game so whatever.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 29, 2019 1:04:12 GMT -6
My backer portrait was the girl with the eye patch (my picture right now). I noticed she has gained quite the popularity which makes me really happy. Thank you for your backer portrait, it is amazing and fits the scenario perfectly! To be honest though, I was sure the girl was a reference to Saber from Fate/Stay Night because, at least for me when I first saw the portrait in-game, they seemed highly alike lol. Now that I know the history behind it, I like it even more than before. So thanks again for sharing it!
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Post by Ciel on Jun 28, 2019 17:44:56 GMT -6
Easy now, I wouldn't say Spanish from Spain is 'weird' or anything like that, my friend. Language is language, and they're all good in their own ways. But I agree with you, in practical terms it might be best to have the Spanish translation done in the Latin American dialects since so many people live in that region, so it makes sense to translate for the folks who'll be buying the most copies In any case, though, even the Latin American spanish localization needs work, so keep paying attention to the script and highlighting mistakes, everyone, all this is really helpful! The economy of Latin American countries is quite precarious and there is a lot of piracy in video games for that reason. I doubt that in those countries the game has more sales than in Spain. The Spanish market is more relevant, that's why 99% of the games are translated into Spanish from Spain and not Latin America. You do know that regional pricing is a thing, right?
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Post by Ciel on Jun 28, 2019 16:28:46 GMT -6
Remember when there was a time some of you (not me, though) honestly thought they could pull off a WiiU and Vita ports of this game? Remember that? Because I'm glad they canceled those, though. The Wii U and Vita ports would probably be possible by reworking every asset of the game to fit those platforms standards. But doing so would have cost a lot more of development to sell what? At most a couple of thousand copies? Not worth it, at all. Over-promising platforms is the bane of most of these gaming Kickstarters, and I'm glad Bloodstained managed to dodge that bullet (not by far, though).
dareka I'm still sure that most of the blame is on DICO's. The recent Kickstarter updates about solving the technical issues haven't mentioned them, which I think it's strange as they were supposed to be the lead developer of the game and as such the most knowledgeable about the game's code. My theory is that they have been out of the project for a while now, maybe since after WayForward was brought on board.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 27, 2019 22:54:33 GMT -6
PC is almost always the superior technical choice for multiplat games. Unless the game has a bad port (which, unfortunately, is frequently the case for japanese ports of some companies like Koei Tecmo) and/or you don't own a gaming PC, there's no reason to not play a multiplatform game on PC.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 27, 2019 19:07:15 GMT -6
Ok so I want to give feedback regarding the Brazilian Portuguese localization.
By the way, Pletora is a term that means "excess (of something)", but specifically in medical terms it means excess of blood. That goes in the "mistranslated" list as well. Bloodless is a very difficult term to translate, and IMO, if she is called Bloodless in japanese as well, I would left it in english for every other language as well. Otherwise, we could look for alternatives that keep the theme, like Bruxa Sangrenta (Blood Witch) or Sanguessuga (Leech). Hey, thanks your comments! Yeah the subjective points are hard to reach an agreement, and most of the time it'll vary depending on who is doing the job. I'll just point out that we're perfectly in synth in this point: if in the original script (in this case, japanese) there's something written in a different language than the original, then that word should be left as is in translations. In this case, Bloodless is indeed called Bloodless in japanese. And actually, this happens with "Shard" and "Shardbinders" as well, while in the Brazilian Portuguese translation they were translated to "Fragmento" and "Fragmentário". I somehow forgot to point it out in my first post lol.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 27, 2019 16:03:33 GMT -6
I mean, steamspy shows that there are 200k-500k owners on Steam alone, and for a $40 indie game that's pretty nuts. I wouldn't worry too much about it. That's very good, but one thing to keep in mind is that the game has probably cost far more than 5.5 million dollars to produce. IIRC, though I'd have to ask around to find it, not long after 505 came on board, Igarashi said the 5.5 million Kickstarter funds had already been "long gone." I believe, though again I'd have to ask to make sure, that 505 added in a decent bit of its own money to the project to do things like get Wayforward on board. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to estimate how much the game cost, especially after the delays relating to Inti, I'd say 15 million dollars as a conservative estimate.
Now, add to that the costs involved in
A: Getting out the free DLC, which was promised on Kickstarter, intended to be part of the base game, and therefore not anything the team can make money off of. They might be able to profit off of costume and story expansion DLC in the future, but the stuff we're looking forward to at the moment is not making us money in return for the continuing development costs.
B: Fixing a lot of bugs, which seem to be much more severe than anyone hoped for, especially at launch (the bad press of which might drag on sales at least slightly). Given the number and severity of those bugs, especially in regards to the Switch, I imagine fixing them is going to take a a considerable amount of cash.
So, with these two factors added in, I think they'd add anywhere from 5 million (at most) to let's say 2 million (if the "free DLC" stretch goals encourages a few more people to buy the game, and if the DLC is relatively easier to make thanks to the basic game systems and assets already completed). So again taking a conservative estimate, we're at a total of 17 million for development costs.
Now, going from the stats you gave, Mourning, if there are 200k sales on Steam, and the game is selling for 36 dollars (not 40, they're taking 10% off at the moment), we get
200,000 x 36 = 7,200,000, or 7 million and two hundred thousand dollars.
At the higher end, 500k copies, we get
500,000 x 36 = 18,000,000 or 18 million.
Now, the higher number alone would seem to net us a profit of 1 million over the initial estimated dev costs of 17 million. But keep in mind there are always Steam fees, taxes, and other things eating away at our profit margin. So I think under the most generous assumptions, we're making in income 60% of what steam reports in sales. So that would be 60% of 7.2 million or 4.32 million for 200k sales, or 10.8 million for 500k sales. So even being as generous as possible for Steam sales, we're still a good deal in the red. If PS4, Xbox, and Switch sales are even comparable to the higher end of the steam sales, that could push us back into the black, but I get the feeling we were relying on a lot of Switch sales and the problems with the Switch port might be severely eating into our sales on that front, which would leave a hefty impact on our end profits.
I don't think all is lost--it's been less than a month since release, and if we've already got a high end of 500k sales on Steam alone, it is conceivable we'll have well over a million (Steam combined with other platforms) before the year is out; even 50% profits of a million sales of 36 to 40 dollars (as the steam sale will end eventually) will allow us to turn a profit on 17-20 million development costs. And this is all napkin math anyways, it may be I've massively overestimated the development costs and/or the cut Steam and taxes take too. Still, even with very strong sales for an indie, I don't think we're entirely out of the woods yet...let's hope the coming DLC encourages a ton of new folks to buy the game!!!
Just a correction: Steam takes 30%, not 40%. I'm not sure of how much GOG takes for every sale, but I imagine it's 30% as well.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 26, 2019 21:33:15 GMT -6
Ok so I want to give feedback regarding the Brazilian Portuguese localization. There are a LOT of things wrong and a lot of screenshots because of it, so I'm going to just post the image links instead of embed them. I'm going to divide this feedback in two parts: things that are objectively wrong (typos, missing whitespaces, wrong translations, etc) and things that are subjectively wrong when it comes to a game translation (we brazilian gamers are used to a whole number of gaming related english expressions that, when translated literally, doesn't make any sense and actually hurts the experience). So let's start.
[DANGER, SPOILERS AHEAD!]
1. Objectively wrong points
1.1 Missing whitespaces: let's start with the worst offender. Literally every single alchemist diary is full of these. In the following gallery, I have marked all of them:
1.2 Wrong translations: there are some mistranslations here and there, so I'm going to point out what I've found so far:
imgur.com/LAjfs08 : "Limpar" should be changed to " Completo" (Complete), the translator probably misread "Clear" as "Clean", because that what "Limpar" means. "Beemonte" (Behemoth) is also wrong, it should be left as Behemoth (some translations of the Bible use it as is) or at least change it to "Beemote", as it is the correct translation.
imgur.com/GVLvWsF : "Resistiu" (Resisted) doesn't make any sense in this context, it should be "Resistências" (Resistences). Funnily, the bestiary uses the correct translation as seen in a later image.
imgur.com/IXLMUoO : "Carneiro" (Sheep) should be left as "Aries", we use this word here in the horoscope, there was no need to translate it and wrongly at that.
imgur.com/fezpELP , imgur.com/0uovqsm : somehow "projectiles" were translated as "flechas" (arrows). It doesn't make any sense to use "arrows" with shards that aren't about shooting arrows.
imgur.com/UT5aDBw : "Rastreamento" (tracking) doesn't make sense by itself here. It should be changed to "aumenta a quantidade de inimigos perseguidos/rastreados" (increases the quantity of tracked enemies, literally). This way it should be clearer in portuguese.
imgur.com/AYUjV7Z : the description of the shard Money is Power was translated as "increase your status depending on your health points", which is just plain wrong. The correct text would be something like "Aumenta seus stats de acordo com a quantidade de dinheiro em posse".
imgur.com/7W494mJ : "... da cerbera" implies there's only one "cerbera". The correct text would be "Folha nutritiva de uma cerbera".
imgur.com/WArJSdg : "Algoz do Sol" (Master of the Sun) is just... what? I honestly have no idea how "moon" was translated to "sun". The correct translation is "Algoz da Lua".
1.3 Typos and overall problems:
imgur.com/xr9B3S4 : "pescotapa" is a regional expression and shouldn't be used here. Using something more generic like just "tapa" would be better. I had to google what that is to give you an idea.
2. Subjectively wrong points: we brazilian gamers are used to gaming-related english expressions, and it's actually expected them to appear even in games translated to brazilian portuguese. In fact, our portuguese has a lot of words that came directly from english, without being translated at all (things like "skate", "yatch"), more about that here. So seeing the words we are come to expect being translated to portuguese just feels wrong, weird and sometimes we can't even understand the meaning anymore for it was lost on the translation.
2.1 Translation of enemy names: Ideally, the enemy names aren't translated. Point. Translation enemy names makes it harder to find tutorials, guides, etc, on how to kill that specific enemy. That said, we are generally fine with common names being translated (like "Bat" -> "Morcego"), because we can just translate it back to english and admittedly it feels silly to have a enemy called "Bat" when the rest of the text in is portuguese. But please, PLEASE, for the love of all that is good in this Earth. DO NOT TRANSLATE BOSS NAMES! See imgur.com/VyZ5aHT , I marked what more stand out for me. Just, like, really just don't. I don't even know what "Pletora" is supposed to be. Don't do that, you're hurting the player's experience. It makes literally impossible to find anything about the boss in the internet with these names. They all should be left in English.
2.2 Translation of area names: By the same logic of not translating boss names, the areas shouldn't be translated as well. Especially when some of the translations are plainly wrong, like imgur.com/hAeM3Xc , where Hall of Termination was translated as "Hall of Sunset" (?). Just left the english names intact, it's better for everyone and we do expect them to be left as is.
2.3 Translation of equipment names: Like, again, the same thing. It's fine to translate common names again, but most of them should be left intact. For example, here imgur.com/E5Cxppl "Claymore" was translated to "Biggest Sword", which was unnecessary and feels silly. Special weapon names should be left as is, without any changes. There's no need, at all, to translate Claymore, a common name for a dual handed sword in RPGs, to something that's just wrong. Leave the weapon names alone.
2.4 Translation of common expressions: "Drop", "Drop rate", "Stats", "Boss Rush" and "Speed Run" are very common and brazilian gamers use them all the time. Translating them just feel wrong and confusing. Here for example imgur.com/SEimrK6 , "soltar item" (drop item) in portuguese doesn't make any sense, and "taxa de recompensa" (drop rate) is completely wrong in this context. I actually had to stop and think a little bit to understand what was that about. In that image there's also the case of translating "Stats" to "Condição", which again is confusing and not exactly correct. It should be left as "stats". "Drop" and "drop rate" should be left as is. And here imgur.com/dZ9CyrJ "Boss Rush" was changed to "Boss Attack" (?) and "Speed Run" to "Race" (?), losing their meaning completely. And finally, there's the currency problem: imgur.com/yCzVVGW . Ok fine, "Ouro" is indeed the correct translation to "Gold", but they shouldn't have translated even the currency letter. Now when playing ( imgur.com/3xmnWrV ) it gets very confusing because "O" seems pretty much a "0" there.
Link to all galleries:
My thoughts: I'm almost sure that whoever was responsible to translate this game has never translated a game before, and consequently is not used to leaving alone some expressions. Technically speaking, all subjective points could be ignored because they're correct, but that isn't enough when working with a game localization. Honestly most of brazilian players are probably going to play in english anyway, but having a localization in our language is essential to atract newcomers. And this sad state is not exactly welcoming.
I really hope that this was helpful, and I'm looking forward for some patches!
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Post by Ciel on Jun 26, 2019 1:29:41 GMT -6
It seems like every localisation other than English was done somewhat poorly. The Brazilian Portuguese is also just as terrible, with lots of typos, missing whitespaces and questionable decisions. They probably haven't done a single QA session at all, and it's obvious that whoever did the translation isn't used to work with games, because everything was translated in the most literal sense possible. I wasn't really that bothered by it as I always play games in English, but when I decided to check out how it went, well let's say I was surprised by how bad it ended up being lol.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 25, 2019 15:40:13 GMT -6
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Post by Ciel on Jun 25, 2019 13:24:26 GMT -6
Ciel Well my personal hope is that they got WayForward for this not just to finish this up because they sealed a deal with them to work on the sequel. I think that is the best case scenario. I think they will help make a very nice game visually that runs much better. My wishlist for the sequel: 1. All gear shows up on the character model. 2. All gear slots can be customized as [equipment] (what you're actually using) and [display] (the graphics displayed on the character model). 3. A little village that grows as you progress through the game (like Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter). 4. Gothic/mature aesthetics (gore, nudity, etc.) more in line with Symphony of the Night. Bloodless and Vepar should be the norm, not the exception. 5. Mana involved in the character design and art direction. 6. Development done entirely by ArtPlay and WayForward. 7. Higher-poly models for the main characters. 8. Support for clipping reduction algorithms (aka lots of polys for scarves and hair, with physics applied) for high-spec machines. 9. New enemy designs and 3D models. 10. QoL features such as a hint log, the ability to turn off leveling, and oh, I dunno, loot that doesn't get stuck in environment half of the time. Realistically, I'll be lucky to get one of these items, though. Nah I think Mana as the lead designer is a given for a sequel, the community approved her work and it seems that even IGA is happy with her. I too think her art is amazing, it fits Bloodstained perfectly and even more than Natsume's.
For the rest though, yeah we'll be lucky if at least one of them end up happening, but your wishlist is basically all we need for a sequel. Might as well tag Angel-Corlux and Question here.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 25, 2019 11:52:57 GMT -6
Ciel Yeah what I think is a fair thing to say is .....this game had some road blocks and they did the best they could with the time and money they had. To think they had to switch teams and then bring on a whole other team near the end. I said this before but imagine if Wayforward helped them out from the get go? Do you know how good this game could have looked visually and probably how few of problems it may have had. The dropping of a team, bringing on another team....it probably ate up the budget and they had to change some plans here and there. WayForward was the best thing to happen with this project, I really wish they were on board since the start. In my opinion, DICO is the source of everything that went wrong, from the technical issues to graphical problems, and probably the sad state that is the Switch port. Here I am hoping that if we ever get a sequel, IGA chooses someone else, anyone but them.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 25, 2019 11:26:59 GMT -6
a casino area would be a wonderful idea! They probably, almost certainly, were going for it, but time constraints happened it seems. Valefor is basically a boss for a casino, yet here he was at a oversized garden for no real reason.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 24, 2019 22:07:37 GMT -6
Unfortunately, I understand recycling enemy models is probably the best way to make the sequel better as a whole, because they're the one asset you can reuse without much trouble, but that was the most disappointing part for me. Honestly, most of these assets aren't reusable from my perspective, they're THAT bad. If IGA's plan was to create a "database" of assets so he can reuse them on later games, he probably failed at that. I wouldn't like to see any of these models in a sequel, if we are ever to get one. And you can call me a hater, but I do think this is again DICO's fault.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 24, 2019 16:21:07 GMT -6
So the game is out for almost a week now, and tomorrow the Switch version is coming out as well. Thankfully, the game seems to be doing pretty well on all platforms.
That said, is there any chance we are getting to know some sales numbers or at least milestones, like "the game sold 100k in the first week!"? I'm really curious about how much of a success (or failure) Bloodstained is, and I'm sure all backers are as well.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 24, 2019 15:57:48 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard I invoke YOU to change the thread title, lol. On topic, yeah having finished the two courses already the boss rush made is indeed lame and way too incomplete. I hope there is going to be a patch for it.
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Post by Ciel on Jun 24, 2019 15:22:25 GMT -6
CastleDanMaybe it has to do with different composers? Some tracks are obviously not composed by Yamane, and while they're still very good on its own right, they aren't exactly what you were expecting. Silent Howling and Gears of Fortune for example could very well pass as a track from the Ys franchise, and vice-versa. Just compare:
vs
Or maybe the game just wasn't invoking the right feelings in the composers? I'm not sure how this works, but well it's a possibility. At the end of the day, we could spend an eternity comparing what we got with the tracks from SotN or Lament of Innocence, but honestly that's unfair. LoI is in my opinion Michiru Yamane magnum opus, and that's a standard too hard to surpass.
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