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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 24, 2016 8:59:54 GMT -6
This thread was bumped because I moved a new topic Thiago had made in Bloodstained Discussion about input command special moves coming back. I'm still all for it myself, of course.
I do want to add though, looking back at my poll options, when I typed "back/forward", I meant like "back to forward + attack", as with how the rod weapons in Symphony have their specials done, or basically a Sonic Boom without the charge. Just wanted to clear that up in case it wasn't clear as I don't think I can edit it now.
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Post by BahamutKaiser on Jun 24, 2016 17:25:40 GMT -6
Simpler combinations spread out on each action would be good.
For instance, the shard powers could be improved if they stacked with similar powers so setting a power included all the unlocked powers of that kind which could be activated with a few variations, even chorded with various movements, like activating right after a back step.
Instead of super complex actions programed to one button, simple actions spread out across many buttons makes them more accessible.
Some complex actions could be included for exaggerated attacks, they should deliver good feedback though.
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 26, 2016 12:12:08 GMT -6
I know Iga once said he was shying away from these special inputs... but please put them in in some way... that was the most awesome thing about getting new weapons in SotN, finding new weapon spells... and mastering Alucard's magic... it was not needed to beat the game it just added extra stuff to the game, which in my opinion was the best part of SotN.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 26, 2016 12:27:41 GMT -6
I know Iga once said he was shying away from these special inputs... but please put them in in some way... that was the most awesome thing about getting new weapons in SotN, finding new weapon spells... and mastering Alucard's magic... it was not needed to beat the game it just added extra stuff to the game, which in my opinion was the best part of SotN. Yeah, I absolutely feel that way myself. I know castledan sure does too haha
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jun 26, 2016 12:51:33 GMT -6
I loved SotN, and almost everything about it.
Almost.
One thing that I didn't care for were the directional imputs for Alucard's spells. (it was kinda a pain in the @$$ trying to pull off a Soul Steal when enemies are already hammering away at your low health) >B( Dark metamorphosis and summon spirit were about the ONLY ones that I could get to work. Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, and every general aspect about it, but the button combination abilities is something that I would NOT like to see make a return.
Sorry guys. :/
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 26, 2016 13:02:59 GMT -6
purifyweirdshard I know, it was a good extra, I know it wasn't for everyone but for those people who liked it, I think it should be implemented... again it is not needed to beat the game, and if people don't like it then they don't need to use it. I just think it would add more flavor to this game. Edit: Oh and for the one button attacks... maybe one of them could be a simple down+attack for a downward thrust move a'la link's adventure... maybe for one sword or a few sword types.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 26, 2016 13:12:40 GMT -6
Yes, I pointedly avoided Soul Steal as a good example of how to go about this, noting Dark Metamorphosis as the spell the farthest on the input difficulty we would be going. I do still really think that it was the input interpreter and not so much the motions themselves that were the problem, though. Optimizing that, we may not have had so many problems. I elaborated more on all that in the first post, so I won't dwell on it more...
Jeff brings to my mind a good point too, in that they were definitely "extra", as in they were only arguably even viable to do early to mid-game. If you never executed Tetra Spirit or Hellfire at all, you're not necessarily missing out on something that would have given you an easier experience or something that had a meaningful use to progress in the game. For those that liked to use them, though, they were there...kind of like all of the weapons you could equip that while not all that strong, per se, had quirks and unique flavor to them that made them fun for different players.
In addition to spells, yeah, I would definitely like to see weapons with attacks, too. I think at the least back>forward, and maybe quarter forward and the like would be fine for most people.
edit: Oh, one other thing though. I think Soul Steal was probably so hard to do on purpose (and had a high MP cost) because it was actually pretty useful. Even me, being a seasoned fighting game player, I couldn't do it a lot of the time. That was again more due to how the game read inputs, pretty sure.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 26, 2016 13:21:09 GMT -6
And speaking of (since he's now here), I'm pretty sure it was a statement of mecharichter 's that I was referencing in my first post about Richter's special and the issue with input interpreters. Maybe he can shed some more light on that/the extent and effect it really has on getting these things out? And in light of all of that, could they be improved upon and subsequently included in Bloodstained?
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 26, 2016 15:34:41 GMT -6
I played the demo again (love it!!!) and I was just thinking they should have a chun-li style hundred kick for some (or one) of the boots in the game or something... I wonder if that is copying too much from capcom, maybe bloodstained could use a quarter-circle+attack movement to make it work, like many of the SotN weapon attack commands.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 26, 2016 18:31:21 GMT -6
I played the demo again (love it!!!) and I was just thinking they should have a chun-li style hundred kick for some (or one) of the boots in the game or something... I wonder if that is copying too much from capcom, maybe bloodstained could use a quarter-circle+attack movement to make it work, like many of the SotN weapon attack commands. That could work, considering that it's been done before with the punching weapons in past Igavania games. No need to worry about "ripping off" Street Fighter moves (because that's honestly already been done in SotN with the "Fist of Tulkas" weapon). I'd love to see Miriam perform several kicks in rapid succession, possibly even dealing 4 hits with just one button-press while using a certain late-game kicking weapon.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 27, 2016 8:52:48 GMT -6
Make Special Moves Great Again!
That Chun-Li idea specifically, gif included, was actually posted in the demo feedback thread not long ago. I'm not opposed to the idea, though the thought of a mash move in a 'vania game sounds kind of like a pain haha. It's a motion in Street Fighter 5 now, actually.
Another idea for those Kung-fu shoes that would be quite useful would be an attack to cover a different area, i.e. above her. A Spinning Bird or flash kick, perhaps. The former would give us multiple hits and the latter would move off of the ground a bit, maybe even with a bit of invincibility. Invulnerable frames are not foreign to Igavania, several of Alucard's moves were invincible. This is of course assuming there is an MP cost.
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 27, 2016 9:44:07 GMT -6
I'm really glad this took off. I was actually shocked that so many people wanted more complex combos too. Makes me happy, I hope they put them in. It was a really cool way to incorporate special spells that you can just whip out without having to equip anything. ( they have to be cool ones though otherwise it'd be pointless)
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 27, 2016 10:37:56 GMT -6
Well, apparently we want this in the game (I know not everyone but many) so XombieMike submit this already (or not I'm not pushy lol). Anyway what kind of weapon specific actions are you guys looking forward to of Iga agrees to include this game mechanic in the bloodstained? I personally really want the multiple Rapier thrusts back (I really don't know what to call that).
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 27, 2016 10:47:08 GMT -6
Well, apparently we want this in the game (I know not everyone but many) so XombieMike submit this already (or not I'm not pushy lol). Anyway what kind of weapon specific actions are you guys looking forward to of Iga agrees to include this game mechanic in the bloodstained? I personally really want the multiple Rapier thrusts back (I really don't know what to call that). You mean exactly like what I did here in the Vine I sent in lol
Also, I know Mike at least knows about the topic, he mentions it in the most recent podcast. If we're set to submit this soon, I'll draft some bullets.
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 27, 2016 10:51:22 GMT -6
yes just like that... that was cool, can you do the Were Bane's movement next?
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Post by XombieMike on Jun 27, 2016 11:18:08 GMT -6
Well, apparently we want this in the game (I know not everyone but many) so XombieMike submit this already (or not I'm not pushy lol). Anyway what kind of weapon specific actions are you guys looking forward to of Iga agrees to include this game mechanic in the bloodstained? I personally really want the multiple Rapier thrusts back (I really don't know what to call that). Has this had a design review request in the thread for that purpose? The first and last real request involved a large poll that we never got confirmation on if submitting it like that was communicated. The current threads being reviewed by official staff are the two feedback threads for bugs and suggestions. They include multiple posts with this suggestion for button sequence attacks.
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Post by JeffCross on Jun 27, 2016 11:21:53 GMT -6
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Post by crocodile on Jun 27, 2016 12:35:14 GMT -6
Well, apparently we want this in the game (I know not everyone but many) so XombieMike submit this already (or not I'm not pushy lol). Anyway what kind of weapon specific actions are you guys looking forward to of Iga agrees to include this game mechanic in the bloodstained? I personally really want the multiple Rapier thrusts back (I really don't know what to call that). Has this had a design review request in the thread for that purpose? The first and last real request involved a large poll that we never got confirmation on if submitting it like that was communicated. The current threads being reviewed by official staff are the two feedback threads for bugs and suggestions. They include multiple posts with this suggestion for button sequence attacks. I double checked the Design Review Request thread because I assumed something of the sorts got written up (probably by me LOL) but no there actually isn't something of the sort written in there. I think there was a summary post written on Weapons but according to that thread it was written by you but never shared publicly - I and others have never seen it. If you want, I can write up this thread sometime later today into a formal request and tag Mana. As an aside, that poll we did for the Castle was super cool and a good community building exercise though I have no idea how much of that feedback actually made it back to the team and how much of that they thought were good ideas and are on track to be implemented. Since I know you arranged that with Mana/FanGamer I guess the question to you is if something similar to that is going to happen again soon? I know there were other topics we wanted to cover and the earlier this feedback is assembled, the more likely and easier it is to implement in the game (assuming the dev team thinks they are good ideas - they are free to and should reject anything they think is dumb or not feasible). Or, as you kind of said, they are too busy with the E3 demo feedback?
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Post by CastleDan on Jun 27, 2016 12:38:40 GMT -6
Has this had a design review request in the thread for that purpose? The first and last real request involved a large poll that we never got confirmation on if submitting it like that was communicated. The current threads being reviewed by official staff are the two feedback threads for bugs and suggestions. They include multiple posts with this suggestion for button sequence attacks. I double checked the Design Review Request thread because I assumed something of the sorts got written up (probably by me LOL) but no there actually isn't something of the sort written in there. I think there was a summary post written on Weapons but according to that thread it was written by you but never shared publicly - I and others have never seen it. If you want, I can write up this thread sometime later today into a formal request and tag Mana. As an aside, that poll we did for the Castle was super cool and a good community building exercise though I have no idea how much of that feedback actually made it back to the team and how much of that they thought were good ideas and are on track to be implemented. Since I know you arranged that with Mana/FanGamer I guess the question to you is if something similar to that is going to happen again soon? I know there were other topics we wanted to cover and the earlier this feedback is assembled, the more likely and easier it is to implement in the game (assuming the dev team thinks they are good ideas - they are free to and should reject anything they think is dumb or not feasible). Or, as you kind of said, they are too busy with the E3 demo feedback? You're definitely the go to user for stuff like this. You even did the shield one for me despite not liking shields Lol
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jun 27, 2016 12:47:27 GMT -6
Well, like I said a few posts ago, I was thinking I would draft some bullet points soon. Crocodile and myself could collaborate on it. I feel like this is my baby and I've had a lot of input on it.
As far as usefulness to the team and what they can/can't do with the feedback, in the design review thread itself, Mana did say that it was useful to her when the topics do arise within the team. If and when this topic comes up, she has something easier to find that they can reference for our thoughts.
edit: This is that post of hers specifically, for those that may not have seen it/don't want to go hunting for it, bloodstainedfanforums.com/post/25396/thread
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