Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
Fifty Storms
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
Posts: 1,901
inherit
Silver in the Dark
1757
0
Jan 8, 2023 17:49:49 GMT -6
1,280
Enkeria
Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
1,901
Nov 28, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -6
November 2016
enkeria
|
Post by Enkeria on Dec 6, 2016 20:43:02 GMT -6
It seems discussion here is kind of winding down and/or reaching something of a consensus. Below is what I will write up. Any objections? Anything reasonable I forgot to add? Thread: Classic Mode: (Realistic) Hopes, Dreams and DesiresSummary: We all came to support Bloodstained because we were huge fans of "Igavanias" and the gameplay they represent. Nonetheless, many here are also fans of the Classic Castlevania gameplay. Overall, most were big fans of Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse and Rondo of Blood with a strong appreciation for the quality of life improvements Super Castlevania IV brought. Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth was also a poplar title. Each of these games, as well as other Classic Castlevania titles, all had their strong points we would like to see brought to Bloodstained's Classic Mode: - Three Playable Characters - Our assumption is that all three confirmed playable characters will be usable in every mode with their unique attributes/weapons/abilities. We hope this assumption is correct <3
- Character Swap - Some liked the character swap mechanic of Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse or Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow but that isn't a majority opinion. Choosing your character at the very beginning of the game or inbetween stages (ala Rondo of Blood) is also fine and probably simpler.
- Weapon and Jump Control - Many REALLY loved the degree of control you had over your jump and your whip (8 way attack) in Super Castlevania IV. As such, our preference is a classic game with a good, controllable jump and weapons that can strike in multiple directions. However, we are also aware of how that must fundamentally change level and enemy design. So if the type of classic game you really want to make requires a more "traditional" jump or weapon abilities that's ok too.
- Branching Paths - We liked the branching pathways and alternate stages that Rondo of Blood offered though we understand that may not be on the table since the Kickstarter described Classic Mode as having six set stages. If there are no alternate stages, we at least hope each stage will have multiple pathways you can play through.
- Stairs - Stairs are of course expected - hopefully you can interact with them well such as the ability to attack from stairs, the ability to jump onto and off of stairs easily, etc.
- Upgradeable Weapons - Multiple Classic Castlevanias have had the ability to upgrade your weapon by collecting power ups in a level. We hope this feature returns with some cool, new, nifty power-ups.
- Mini-Bosses - Mini-Bosses are cool so if possible we'd like to see them in addition to regular bosses.
- Sub-Weapons and Item Crashes - Sub-Weapons seem to have been deconfirmed for the main game but every Classic Castlevania has sub-weapons so the expectation is that something similar (though it doesn't have to be exactly a Sub-Weapon system) will be at least present in Classic Mode. Many were fans of item crashes so something similar in Bloodstained would be cool too.
- Three Playable Characters: If this is true, we could perhaps see three playable characters, with same sprites and design in the mini-prequal game.
- Character Swap: At save points would be nice, making those "rooms" if there are any, more than just for saving.
- Weapon and Jump Control: 8-way sounds good.
- Branching Paths: Have branching endings instead, based out of points, health and time. If correctly done - a secret will be unlocked?
- Stairs: 16-bit era, more control. Yes!
- Upgradeable Weapons / Sub-Weapons: Different sub-weapons would be cool. Having Power I, II and III for them instead of the main weapon perhaps? Find all three before boss = more power = more points = but less time.
- Mini-Bosses: Got no idea here, every boss up until the final one is a mini-boss in my book.
I would also like to see
- Finished Game: Different endings based out of your skill in terms of time and points left. Health too if entering Classic Mode if it can be combined with the harder difficulty. The endings could "just be text" and stories changed actually, no need for cinematic cutscenes.
- Music: Let us toggle between songs or even from old-school to modern music even when playing this Classic Mode.
- Pause Menu: Show time, secrets found and such (instead of a map?). Make the menu old-school too!
- Monster Book: If there is any place to read about the Monsters from the game, it would be nice to actually have the modern mode of them next to the classic. I understand the classic might not have ALL the enemies, but I would love for both the book to be there (lore geek) and the art for the monster beside the pixeled version, perhaps somewhat animated to be "alive". Could be a thing you unlock perhaps?
- Voice-acting: No voicelines -or- make it "Dumb-downed sound", Retro feel is important here too! Filter it so it sounds "old".
|
|
inherit
1773
0
Mar 29, 2021 19:52:09 GMT -6
42
wissenschaft
55
Dec 11, 2016 11:59:51 GMT -6
December 2016
wissenschaft
|
Post by wissenschaft on Dec 12, 2016 17:00:41 GMT -6
All I want out of classic mode is the 8-direction whip from Super Castlevania 4. That made the game fun for me. This. It's a damn shame 8-directional attacking was barely in any of the CV games. I don't think 8 directional attacking belongs in an Igavania. One of the ways in which different weapon classes are distinguished is by their hitbox. Even if you prefer speedy rapiers, a greatsword is still useful for easily hitting flying enemies. If I could just stab up with my rapier then that lessens the need to use different types of weapons. Miriam can choose what direction to shoot her bullet spells out so its possible you can do the same in classic mode. Whether or not well even get a whip in classic mode is unknown. Then again, Iga is well aware of how much of a connection his fans have to whips. lol If we do get a whip in classic mode then I would like 8 directional attacking but its not a deal breaker.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Apr 5, 2024 19:44:53 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 12, 2016 17:09:28 GMT -6
This. It's a damn shame 8-directional attacking was barely in any of the CV games. I don't think 8 directional attacking belongs in an Iga game. One of the ways in which different weapon classes are distinguished is by their hitbox. Even if you prefer speedy rapiers, a greatsword is still useful for easily hitting flying enemies. If I could just stab up with my rapier then that lessen the need to use different types of weapons. Miriam can choose what direction to shoot her bullet spells out so its possible you can do the same in classic mode. Whether or not well even get a whip in classic mode is unknown. Then again, Iga is well aware of how much of a connection his fans have to whips. lol THANK YOU YES!!!!!!!
ahem, I agree. To give some reference, as I imagine not everyone has seen me rant about this lol:
Speaking of, the 8-direction whip attacks. One important consideration for that with me is difficulty of the game. If you have a half screen-ish attack that can hit in all directions, how do you balance the rest of the game around that? Would you ever want to go back to using a sword, even? Do you nerf the damage of the whip to the point that it's only really viable for utility (i.e. the swing possibility brought up, hitting certain hard to reach enemies, etc)? I think a big reason that the multi-direction whip did not return was because of just that - it affects level design and difficulty. If a game is designed around enemy placement assuming shorter range kick/sword attacks, their decisions on designing the level may be trivialized if you can attack all directions, even without consumption of MP. Just look at Mega Man versus Metroid - Mega Man has never been able to shoot in any direction except straight forward, but that's not an issue because the game and its enemies/levels are designed around that. In Metroid, it's quite a bit different with more enemies on the ceiling, approaching you above and diagonally from the air where you need to use your aim. Anyway, I think a fine way to make whips meaningfully strong is to have them of course be a longer-ranged attack than swords, but classically just horizontal. With holding the button, you can twirl it as many main characters have been able to do since. That gives it a bit of a unique flavor, kind of a "shield" for blocking projectiles, and they could develop that further into something more useful for combat. I'm certainly cool too with the swinging idea, but all these more whip-centric things might be suited to a different playable character, too. If we were indeed going more with the SCV4 route, I could see it more in that case.
|
|
Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
195
0
Aug 19, 2023 8:35:43 GMT -6
2,620
Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
3,402
Jun 24, 2015 13:36:33 GMT -6
June 2015
galamoth
|
Post by Galamoth on Dec 12, 2016 17:12:51 GMT -6
This. It's a damn shame 8-directional attacking was barely in any of the CV games. I don't think 8 directional attacking belongs in an Iga game. One of the ways in which different weapon classes are distinguished is by their hitbox. Even if you prefer speedy rapiers, a greatsword is still useful for easily hitting flying enemies. If I could just stab up with my rapier then that lessen the need to use different types of weapons. Miriam can choose what direction to shoot her bullet spells out so its possible you can do the same in classic mode. Whether or not well even get a whip in classic mode is unknown. Then again, Iga is well aware of how much of a connection his fans have to whips. lol As much as I'd personally miss diagonal-downward strikes with swords and whips (assuming that isn't in Bloodstained), I'd otherwise be totally fine with it for reasons already stated above. Miriam's Directional Shard abilities will more than make up for it. I love using Spears in past Igavania games, though. I'd want to see Miriam be able to attack diagonally-downwards (and even upwards) with a Spear, even while in mid-air. That'd certainly give her plenty options with such a mid-range weapon.
|
|
Dengojin
Wild Rose
Global Moderator
Posts: 212
inherit
Wild Rose
1004
0
1
Nov 14, 2021 16:54:54 GMT -6
271
Dengojin
212
Jan 4, 2016 6:20:17 GMT -6
January 2016
dengojin
|
Post by Dengojin on Dec 12, 2016 18:12:13 GMT -6
- Upgradable whip : Leather whip > Long leather whip > Chain whip > Dual wield
- Selectable stages and castle sides ( Side A and side B )
- Rewards after you beat the classic mode for the main mode ( stronger whip, outfits etc...)
- online co op !
|
|
inherit
205
0
1
Oct 16, 2019 18:36:27 GMT -6
1,635
crocodile
1,088
Jun 27, 2015 16:51:30 GMT -6
June 2015
crocodile
|
Post by crocodile on Dec 16, 2016 2:31:54 GMT -6
To wissenschaft and purifyweirdshard : I can't tell if y'all are making a "good/bad" argument or "I personally prefer X" argument. I mean at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what the mechanic(s) is but more so that it is implemented well. If 8-Way attacking is implemented well and the game is designed with it in mind, it can only be an asset rather than a detriment. If a developer wants to achieve a specific type of game play or enemy/level design than you may want to avoid 8-Way attacking but that has nothing to do with 8-Way attacking being bad. I find it had to have a strong opinion against it since I assume all conversations are working with the assumption game design will be on point no? Unless of course you personally prefer the more restrictive game play which is why I asked the first question. Like there are people who prefer Classicvania gameplay over Igavania (and vice-versa) and that's because both are good in different ways rather than one being strictly better or worse than the other. Is that what y'all are saying? That's fine - I just feel I should stress you can have good, challenging gameplay no matter what systems you employ as long as your design skills are on point.
|
|
Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
Posts: 3,402
inherit
Ancient Legion
195
0
Aug 19, 2023 8:35:43 GMT -6
2,620
Galamoth
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
3,402
Jun 24, 2015 13:36:33 GMT -6
June 2015
galamoth
|
Post by Galamoth on Dec 16, 2016 5:50:43 GMT -6
It occurred to me when I made my previous reply to wissenschaft about directional attacking, it would appear that I wasn't aware of which thread I was typing in (on top of digressing into Spears). To compose a more on-topic reply, and in agreement with crocodile , I'll type up some rhetorical questions for Classic Mode. Of course, speculation is abound, considering that nothing else has been officially revealed about Classic Mode... yet. 1. How will Miriam's Spells [most likely "Sub-Weapons" in this case] work? I would assume that her selection of Spells is severely limited, perhaps with no options for " Enchant" or " Familiar" Shard abilities. I'd have the impression that she'd work similarly to Sypha from CV III. ( Maybe some Directional Shard abilities will be available...) 2. Just because this is Classic Mode, will that mean Miriam's mobility is affected? (Will characters in Classic Mode drop like a rock, and jumps are relatively-difficult to control, akin to the 8-bit games?) 3. What about the possibility of "Alternate" Stages [ala Rondo of Blood]? If the characters were to either find a different route to complete a previous Stage or fulfill some other secret objective, we could advance to hidden Stages that may [or may not] contribute to changing the ending upon beating Classic Mode. ^ (Alternate Stages in Rondo of Blood [and Dracula X Chronicles] are marked with an apostrophe after the number. Ex. Stage 4'.)
|
|
inherit
1773
0
Mar 29, 2021 19:52:09 GMT -6
42
wissenschaft
55
Dec 11, 2016 11:59:51 GMT -6
December 2016
wissenschaft
|
Post by wissenschaft on Dec 18, 2016 18:04:01 GMT -6
Playing Rondo of Blood reminds me that how stairs are handled is important. Being able to jump on and off stairs with ease was so nice. It made stairs no longer a death trap like in older games.
Also, I hope we have more control over our jumps or at least a slide mode. Bloodstained's classic mode should have some type of move to dodge attacks with.
Edit: Oh, and I would say that Dracula Chronicles X is probably a good idea of what we shall get graphics wise. Since Bloodstained is a 2.5D game, the classic mode will likely be built 2.5D as well. Theres no way they are making a 2D engine for whats just a short bonus mode. Despite the hate that DCX got for its graphics, I thought the game looked good. Some people are just very closed minded about 2.5D games.
Speaking of which, I hope theres a bunch of hidden items in the classic mode. There should be food hidden in walls and secret rooms to get powerups and sub-weapons.
|
|
purifyweirdshard
Administrator
Administrator
Calling from Heaven
Posts: 3,789
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
inherit
Administrator
210
0
1
Apr 5, 2024 19:44:53 GMT -6
3,660
purifyweirdshard
Calling from Heaven
3,789
Jun 29, 2015 7:24:38 GMT -6
June 2015
purifyweirdsoul
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Example 2
|
Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 20, 2016 9:30:09 GMT -6
Secret rooms with things like...Maria in it? lol: Richter: uhhh nah lol you should stay here, I got this lil' lady *backturn pose* Maria: Buuuuut I can help heehee!
*Maria destroys the entire game*
Re: Classic mode 2D, they may not have to make 2D graphics just for that mode if they decide to reuse some of what they have from the prequel game and retro level. Fine with me either way.
crocodile , I hear what you're saying, but to me it's kind of like this: it's just a much simpler/easier consideration to not take upon the task of balancing against that attack option to begin with. They could do it, they have the game design know-how/ability and I wouldn't dare diminish that, but it does change the meta and flavor of the game's flow. My quote there was also within the context of 8-way whip being in the MAIN game, rather than Classic mode. That's a bit different - Classic built around that consideration could be fine. It would feel more CV4 than general classic 'vania to me, but it could be okay.
For classic Castlevania, I feel like the game shines more when you're scared about not being careful with your angles of jumps and approaching enemies/how enemies approach you. They can come from several directions while you're considering navigating platforms, so you have to plan and think about how to move and your subweapon choice. If you can just whip upwards, well...hm. Guess I don't really need to think about options B or C. In an IGA game, there usually are no fall deaths, so if you can attack all around you + not having to worry about directions enemies come in, well...I guess give things a lot of life then? lol, sounds pretty boring to me. They could figure it out surely, but seems unnecessary. It's like with the Mega Man vs Metroid example I gave. Going further with that, it's not because they couldn't/didn't know how to program Mega Man to ever crouch, it just wasn't a necessary consideration for how the game is played...just as how he's only going to shoot straight forward. You could say it's my preference that the fundamentals of a game stay the same rather than real-world, less game-y considerations take over, i.e. "why can't I just hit above me? Why can't Bionic Commando jump?", etc.
|
|
inherit
1706
0
Jul 2, 2020 11:11:56 GMT -6
14
DaNastyMan
13
Aug 31, 2016 16:46:21 GMT -6
August 2016
danastyman
|
Post by DaNastyMan on Jan 25, 2017 23:25:13 GMT -6
What was your favorite Classicvania game and why? What elements of that game(s) would you like to see in Bloodstained's Classic Mode? *Points to name and Icon* , why? Because it's the basis of the the whole franchise's soundtrack. On top of that it's an exploration of what Dracula's evil does to other people who opposed him. It also has branchese which effects somewhat where you can go and what can you do.
as for what I'd like to see in classic mode: Multiple playable characters that you can switch between. Branches in the levels. Miriam should have a skill skill set that's decent but not overpowered for early game that is replaced with a better verison (either her stats are boosted on the back end or it's replaced entirely with better ones). And if they want to expand further I'd say look towards what Circle of the Moon (the game Iga had no hand in developing) by having different versions of the lead by having the "Magician Mode - Fighter Mode - Shooter Mode - Thief Mode" which respectively gives you all the magic abilities but all your other stats are hugely nerfed, No magic but high health and damage with sub-weapons(ala Belmont classic), Sub-weapons deal more damage and cost half hearts , Everything but Luck sucks meaning you're stuck relying on drops and equipment to get anywhere. Thief mode probably wouldn't work in context of classic mode but could possibly be reworked.
|
|