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Post by Galamoth on Oct 22, 2016 15:17:44 GMT -6
I know you mentioned in the original post that you're not super confident in Yamada's compositions, but I'm playing through Gunvolt now and there's an impressive amount of diversity on display. I wouldn't say that any of the non-cutscene music is particularly moody or brooding but I wouldn't be surprised to hear something Yamada composes fit the bill in that department. Keleidoscope is a good example of a song that sets a mood. Plenty of the tracks he composed for the Megaman Zero games, both stage music and cutscene music alike, certainly fit the mood of each section of the game you hear them in. "Darkness Over World", "Cold Smile", "Omega Missile", and "Apocalypse Now" all certainly felt appropriate. "On the Edge" and "Ragnarok" (from Zero 4) were great as well, in my opinion. Hopefully, I'm not confusing someone else's compositions with Yamada's own, because there were at least 4 people [including Yamada himself] composing the music for all of the Zero series games. It's never really made clear (to my knowledge) who exactly composed which track.
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Post by RichterB on Oct 24, 2016 19:07:48 GMT -6
Video game music is near and dear to my heart, especially Castlevania series music. I'm on the fence right now about Bloodstained's OST. At this time, I'd say it has its moments--it's a fine start--but it feels a bit middle-of-the-road and reserved. Authenticity is good, and I like that it sets a time frame, but you need to have counterpoints and juxtapositions, because this isn't a straight-laced Gothic tale, and neither was Castlevania. The Castlevania series has shown that all genres of music work, so long as the composition is there.
The genre that Castlevania and Bloodstained lie in has that authentic Gothic base to it, but it also has a sensationalist "haunted house/mirrored fun house" element that brings out the otherworldly, bizarre sense of adventure. It goes back to the Hammer and Universal Monster Movie/Monster Mash/MJ Thriller-style origins of the Castlevania franchise. The outfit that Miriam is wearing alongside her abilities inform us that this is not a straight-laced, formal Gothic tale alone. There is no doubt in my mind that jazz fits in this world, just like it did in Castlevania. Think about Super Castlevania IV's OST, particularly the Atlantis area. The music builds into a jazzy tune that highlights the flow of the water and the surreal challenges unfolding around the player. More recently, Order of Ecclesia's Jaws of a Scorched Earth tune is another one that creates an airy, otherworldly, yet tense melody that taps into the strangeness and elegance of the world. SotN's Crystal Teardrop is among the most evocatively powerful tunes in the series, again playing off the nature of water and the mysterious eeriness of the world; and Wandering Ghosts is such a shocking and amazing juxtaposition that plays off the kinesthetic energy of a place where battle is a sport--a colosseum.
Going further, in fact, one of the strangest songs in the series, the Anti-soul Mysteries Lab, actually worked really well for me. It almost is set up as a house-party dance song, but it is eerie and out of control, conjuring up imagery of nefarious and crazy experiments. It grabs you and surprises you. As far as Invitation of a Crazed Moon goes...I actually love it, and find myself humming it even after all these years. It remains one of the most memorable new songs in the Castlevania franchise. It has the "onset of an adventure" vibe, builds into moments of tension that feel like a pipe organ is giving you the haunting "dun-dun-dun!," yet also has the swagger of its protagonists and their resolute gait in mind. (Along with Jail of Jewel and Hail from the Past, it's one of the best from that OST.)
But I'm just sharing my perspective, and we don't yet have the full visual context for all of the new songs.
In the end, I want to see more variety and risks taken with Bloodstained's OST. I want songs that really stick out and emphasize specific elements when they come about. As good as the theme is at setting up a game, it's just a theme right now. For stage moments, Yamane's Voyage of Promise and Ippo Yamada's Cursed Orphan are probably the standouts for me right now. I still have confidence that it'll all add up in the end. The tunes released so far are not bad by any means, and likely work well in their areas, but I haven't been fully hooked yet. I'm curious what Jake Kaufman will bring to the proceedings, as he was listed as the third soundtrack member. (And speaking of which, that might sum up my feelings the most: There hasn't been that Shovel Knight "Strike the Earth" musical theme moment that totally overwhelms you with excitement for Bloodstained.)
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Oct 25, 2016 7:39:38 GMT -6
I agree completely, RichterB. In my last post here actually, I had specifically mentioned Crystal Teardrop and Wandering Ghosts as examples of bold genre directions I really wanted Bloodstained to take. What we do have is pretty good, but it is also pretty "safe". I hope that Yamane and certainly the rest of the team doesn't feel constrained to keep things too low risk. I hope that this more extended timeline allows for more of those magical creative bursts we're used to.
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Post by Galamoth on Oct 25, 2016 8:17:34 GMT -6
I agree completely, RichterB . In my last post here actually, I had specifically mentioned Crystal Teardrop and Wandering Ghosts as examples of bold genre directions I really wanted Bloodstained to take. What we do have is pretty good, but it is also pretty "safe". I hope that Yamane and certainly the rest of the team doesn't feel constrained to keep things too low risk. I hope that this more extended timeline allows for more of those magical creative bursts we're used to. All things considered, we've still only heard 4 tracks so far. I imagine there's hope for more creative tracks that aren't necessarily limited to 19th Century classical instruments (or similar sounding synth-instruments). Honestly, for a brief moment I actually thought that Luxurious Overture was pretty "high risk" when I first listened to the sample, because [to me] part of it sounds so similar to " Crucified" (an early 90's song by Army of Lovers). ^ If it was totally Michiru Yamane's intention to make that track a nod toward that 90's song? I actually love her all the more for it. Personally, I love how Holy Wisdom reminds me of Lament of Innocence's OST.
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Post by RichterB on Oct 25, 2016 12:24:17 GMT -6
...Honestly, for a brief moment I actually thought that Luxurious Overture was pretty "high risk" when I first listened to the sample, because [to me] part of it sounds so similar to "Crucified" (an early 90's song by Army of Lovers)...Personally, I love how Holy Wisdom reminds me of Lament of Innocence's OST. Yikes! That does sound similar. And it says the album title the song "Crucified" was on was called "Massive Luxury Overdose." That definitely seems to be an homage...though, it may be too close to the source material. This has happened in video games and anime in the past enough that I could name names, but I wonder if this is a good idea these days with how sensitive things can be. Anyway, I noticed the choral effect from LoI's OST in Holy Wisdom as well, and liked it, but it didn't win me over. I kept waiting for it to break loose like LoI's House of Sacred Remains breaks loose at about 1:37. I feel with some of these songs we're getting more of an extended intro; though, maybe that's exactly what these newest samples are now that I think about it. Again, it's still early in the whole process, and IGA originally said this game would have massive amounts of areas, I think.
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Post by CastleDan on Oct 25, 2016 18:01:27 GMT -6
Interesting that you like the voyage track the most. It's the track thT reminds me most of the DS games. Which are my least fav musically... However, I do agree the genre jumping tracks are typically great. I love. Crystal tear drops
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Post by RichterB on Oct 26, 2016 0:35:47 GMT -6
Interesting that you like the voyage track the most. It's the track thT reminds me most of the DS games. Which are my least fav musically... However, I do agree the genre jumping tracks are typically great. I love. Crystal tear drops I have mixed feelings about the DS OSTs, so I understand where you're coming from. But the reason I noted the "voyage" track was not necessarily for innovation or iconicness; rather, it was the only stage-based tune that gave me the sense that I'm on an adventure with tension. It can and likely is a different story for others, and that's all right. I think that the "main title theme" carries a good amount of feeling and imagery to it, as well, but I'm looking for something that drives me forward, whether it be eclectic, offbeat, or straightforward. The "voyage" hangs a bit and is a bit straightforward, but it's the closest thing to a stage theme so far that moves me a little. In all honesty, and this is my impression right now, the DS games' early advertised themes--stuff like Pitch Black Intrusion, Invitation of a Crazed Moon, and An Empty Tome left a bit more of a powerful first impression, even despite their own conventions and limited technological implementations. But that's just first impressions. My feelings may change. And again, it's very early.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Oct 26, 2016 7:55:22 GMT -6
Yes, Voyage works pretty well. My favorite part of it is the Prologue-ish guitar sound that starts it off, which along with the bass-y "dong" in the main riff are sounds that evoke an in/underwater feeling. It's really hard to find the right words to say what I mean with that, but it's there and I think that's really cool.
Having that energized and explorative feel to the songs is something that IGA himself really pushes on Yamane lol, so I think he'll have us covered. A lot of the time in the later parts of the game, we move to more ambient, haunting and instrumental pieces rather than that "get going!" push from earlier. Lost Painting and Abandoned Pit are two that are like that imo, while some areas do remain understatedly energetic.
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Post by CastleDan on Oct 26, 2016 9:03:15 GMT -6
Yes, Voyage works pretty well. My favorite part of it is the Prologue-ish guitar sound that starts it off, which along with the bass-y "dong" in the main riff are sounds that evoke an in/underwater feeling. It's really hard to find the right words to say what I mean with that, but it's there and I think that's really cool. Having that energized and explorative feel to the songs is something that IGA himself really pushes on Yamane lol, so I think he'll have us covered. A lot of the time in the later parts of the game, we move to more ambient, haunting and instrumental pieces rather than that "get going!" push from earlier. Lost Painting and Abandoned Pit are two that are like that imo, while some areas do remain understatedly energetic. I still feel that guitar start was a tease, it should have driven the song....imo. It would have reminded me of tracks like Tragic Prince...which really amps you up while still fitting the stage perfectly. I want to be clear I pretty much greatly enjoy everything released. I just have small criticisms of each track: Bloodstained Theme : Listen to the text scroll theme of SOTN, or the one in Lament Of Innocence...just doesn't hit that level of brooding but maybe that wasn't the intention? It's honestly been my least favorite track. It almost feels like it'd fit in an anime better than an igavania type game...WELL until the very end when the organ hits. Luxurious : Honestly the track is pretty perfect to me, I'm not the biggest fan of the intro section but that melodic string part and then the harpsichord part gets me good! Cursed Orphan: Sounds like it could be a rockin' track from SOTN. I love it. In it's current form it sounds a bit TOO busy, I preferred the Kickstarter one. Voyage: As I said, it could used a bit more oomph from Electric guitar. Holy Wisdom: Probably my favorite track but it has an issue that I find to be a problem in the tracks I typically like the least...It doesn't seem to break away into a different melody at any point. Granted we haven't heard the full track but think to Requiem or even Luxurious....it has different parts to really break things up and feel a bit more ...'epic'? Super small nitpicks! Really like what I'm hearing, just hoping for more BROODING/Moody pieces and hopefully tracks that have that Crystal Tear Drops/Dance of Pales feel. Still, thus far it's my favorite soundtrack from her in a long time if the other tracks at the very least keep up at this quality. I'm just hoping it exceeds my expectations.
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