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Post by CastleDan on Jul 8, 2016 9:46:09 GMT -6
Okay, now my take. I need to preface by noting that I consider Yamane's SotN soundtrack to be not just the best Castlevania soundtrack but to be one of the best soundtracks to anything I have ever personally experienced. In brutal honesty, I feel that Castlevania soundtracks are perhaps better known for certain iconic tracks than they are for music you'd purposefully record and listen to at your non-gaming leisure. Some tracks from Castlevania 2 and Castlevania 3 would make such a list, in my opinion. A couple from Lament of Innocence. Not much else, really. Now, do I mean the entire SotN soundtrack? No. I don't have rose-tinted glasses when it comes to music; I can differentiate between music that is genuinely superb in ways that I personally like, and music that I've simply gotten used to, grew up with, or associate with a particular game/movie/whatever. That said, I would say that 50% of SotN's soundtrack (not counting the many boss battles) is in my traveling playlist. I can only name a handful of games or movies which share this distinction. Super Mario Galaxy, Chrono Trigger... it's a short list.
Where to begin on Bloodstained's music? I think I'll limit the discussion to two tracks: Galleon Minerva and Cursed Orphan. Galleon Minerva seems calculated to be Bloodstained's counterpart to SotN's Dracula's Castle. The two tracks are just about interchangeable. I don't consider either track to be flat-out amazing, in the specific sense of adding to a limited playlist that includes only the best, but I do consider Dracula's Castle to be an absolutely iconic part of SotN's soundtrack, and I am gradually coming to accept Galleon Minerva as fulfilling much the same role. Comparing the quality of the two, Galleon Minerva suffers from a decidedly lower production value, feeling like a track that was rejected from SotN in favor of Dracula's Castle. Cursed Orphan is the one track we have from the second composer, Ippo Yamada. Yamada has done a fair bit of music I like, including the exceptional and very famous Wily stage music from Mega Man 2. But I'm not here to be part of an echo chamber, so I must honestly submit that I find Cursed Orphan to be extremely generic and derivative. I get the impression that he slapped it together to serve as a counter piece to the somber and inactive main theme provided by Yamane. Yamada did a good job with minute-long chip tunes on the NES, but there is little here to give confidence in his half of Bloodstained's soundtrack. I found myself heartened to note that the demo's music was in fact entirely Yamane's doing, particularly as I was betting on Yamane only providing a token number of tracks, leaving it to Yamada to compose the majority of the soundtrack.
Now, there's a point that I feel I need to stress: While SotN's soundtrack was a technical masterpiece from front to back (not counting the credits), what elevated it above almost everything else I've ever listened to was the standout pieces that simply blew me away. SotN did not waste time in this regard: The first track that caught my notice to that extent was Prologue.
Now, just give the speakers some volume and listen to that. People in this thread seem hyped for the music we've heard so far in the demo. "I like it," everyone seems to be saying. "It's great." But if we'd been privy to a track anywhere near the caliber of Prologue, people would be frothing at the mouth over how great the final product is going to be. There would be no question: We were in for something special. In a way, I'm glad we've only been shown sort of middling-good tracks thus far; goodness knows I wouldn't have wanted to wear out Prologue a year before I got to play SotN. But in a way, it also leaves me room to worry whether the final product will have any tracks of the caliber of Prologue, the incongruous but irresistible Crystal Teardrops, the appropriately macabre and discordant Abandoned Pit, the melodic and slightly dissonant waltz Dance of Pales, or the epic and surprising The Tragic Prince. I also worry that Yamane's total output won't even allow for very many such tracks, especially with her counterpart muscling in. The final worry I have is that the change in IP may have (or may be having) a stifling effect on Yamane's creativity. What do I mean? I mean if we don't get any waltzes, organ-heavy Beethoven-esque sonatas, gothic-sounding harpsichord tunes, or, heck, even heavy rock pieces here and there, it's specifically because that was all done in Dracula-themed Castlevania, and here we have a new game whose setting feels nebulous. Perhaps the most Yamane really knows is that they want it to be "like Symphony of the Night", but perhaps not identical to it. I have to say that the music is the component of the game that I'll fuss over the most because my taste in games, I have found, has tended to be dictated to a great extent by how good its soundtrack was. You'd better believe that if most of Bloodstained's soundtrack ends up being of a vein of Cursed Orphan, it will color my entire experience with the game. So far, Bloodstained is looking to be more than I ever hoped it could - especially after the debacle of a certain very closely-patterned flop. Here's hoping the soundtrack ends up blowing me away. Yup, I pretty much feel the same way right now. I liked every track i've heard from Bloodstained but nothing has wowed me yet like the tracks from SOTN. SOTN, gave me feels and felt so damn fitting musically for a vampire story. The arrangements I feel like have a lot to do with it, I feel every instrument was perfectly picked for every part. Every track almost felt like a standout. That's not to knock what we've heard so far, I really have enjoyed them. I feel like the above track is CLOSE to the type of songs I'm hoping for but again something about the arrangement. It feels like it has a very modern feel to it? A more stripped down production compared to the very elaborate vibes of the SOTN OST? I'm not quite sure what it is but it's close! When the very melody string part comes in that's the melodic, creepy, classical music style vibe I miss. Moonlight Nocturne ^ I am hoping for tracks more in this vein, it has a darkness/mysterious shrouding the music WHILE being big sounding and melodic. I think the problem I'm having so far is the tracks don't invoke any moodiness or sense of dread. It all feels very lighthearted thus far. Listen to the Requiem from SOTN and you're filled with a sense of sadness and just a feeling of awe. It's not just a great composition but it feels very atmospheric in it's production.
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Post by asterra on Jul 9, 2016 0:46:29 GMT -6
Yup, I pretty much feel the same way right now. I liked every track i've heard from Bloodstained but nothing has wowed me yet like the tracks from SOTN. SOTN, gave me feels and felt so damn fitting musically for a vampire story. The arrangements I feel like have a lot to do with it, I feel every instrument was perfectly picked for every part. Every track almost felt like a standout. That's not to knock what we've heard so far, I really have enjoyed them. [...] I think the problem I'm having so far is the tracks don't invoke any moodiness or sense of dread. It all feels very lighthearted thus far. Listen to the Requiem from SOTN and you're filled with a sense of sadness and just a feeling of awe. It's not just a great composition but it feels very atmospheric in it's production. Here are more of my thoughts on what we've gotten from Yamane so far and what I think we're likely to get in the final version of Bloodstained. As I already mentioned, I don't feel that any of the music in the demo is of the sort that makes me sit up and take notice, the way certain tracks from certain Castlevania games of the past did. Then again, with the amount of music presented in the demo, the odds of a standout track being present were small. But then again, the main tune in the demo is essentially a lesser imitation of SotN's Dracula's Castle.I think there are four possibilities: 1) Yamane is legitimately past her prime. This happens to every composer. John Williams' score for TFA, while not bad, is almost completely forgettable. Not even his work with the prequels had so little going for it. If Yamane ends up not producing a single standout track for Bloodstained, then this is the reason. Again, this happens. 2) Yamane is rusty, after doing almost no real volume of music for many years, and primarily Nintendo DS "soundtracks" (sequenced music, like MIDI) for many more years before then. With the music provided for the demo being the very earliest works she's done for the game, it's to be understood that she needs to get back up to speed. 3) Yamane, like Kojima, assumed from the start that Bloodstained was going to be a small-time gig, and potentially not even that, and so hasn't caught up to the fact that it's turned out to be even more important than Symphony of the Night, and the demo's early music is a reflection of this half-hearted frame of mind. 4) The music we have is, by and large, temporary, because after all one of the Kickstarter goals was "Orchestrated Tracks". If any part of the demo is likely to fall under this special qualifier, it'd be the main level music of the galleon Minerva, and that's really the one I reference as sounding good but not as good as a similar track from Bloodstained's 20-year-old predecessor.
This conveniently lets me shift focus to the orchestrated tracks thing. Frankly, this part of the Bloodstained project worries me. It could be great! (See: Super Mario Galaxy.) But what happens more often is that they hire a cheap orchestra in a bad stadium with drowning reverb and poorly-placed mics, and the resulting absence of intimacy to the sound just doesn't hold a candle to what could have been artificially produced. Yamane has never composed music in this specific capacity before, that I know of, so that is an unavoidable concern as well. It's just hard for me to consider this stretch goal a guaranteed positive. I personally hope that very little of the final soundtrack is a live orchestra.
And that leads me to the final soundtrack. Originally, I had the anticipation that Yamane would end up only providing a token proportion of the complete soundtrack, but then the demo came out and all of the music was hers. And then I remembered that one of the Kickstarter tiers included having her signature on the soundtrack - hers, alone. This basically means I was probably wrong. So where does that leave the others? Yamada, I feel, is there to fill some blanks. As a more specific guess, I bet he'll cover a lot of boss music, since there is going to have to be a lot of that, and it's not easy to maintain variety by oneself. But I'm really interested in Virt's participation. So far, the only thing we know for certain is that he will be providing at least a couple of 8-bit tracks - that much can be gleaned from the Kickstarter. But then, so will the other two composers. Virt was obviously thrown on the pile for the same reason we got David Hayter and Robbie Belgrade: It was a fairly transparent effort to draw some fanboy attention to the Kickstarter, and probably also quite affordable. But speaking as someone who's listened to probably most of Virt's output, I know he has a very wide range of talents, and I would be pretty unsurprised if he managed to kick out a tune or two that not only captured Yamane's style but also were of "standout" quality like we got in SotN. I think he could do it. Whether that's something he signed up to do is the question.
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Post by CastleDan on Jul 19, 2016 19:30:05 GMT -6
I want to reiterate, the new track we got is a good step in the right direction and I hope there's more of that melodic beauty.
We really need a track that has a clear focus on piano again honestly, Dance of Pales is one of a kind and I'd really like a track that can capture that essence again. A lot of the music feels upbeat so far in comparison.
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Jul 27, 2016 20:22:11 GMT -6
I'm honestly really digging the music thus far, though the newer version of Cursed Orphan we've heard...I don't like it as much as the one on the KS page. It feels cluttered, too many effects drowning out what I feel is a truly good boss theme.
I know diddly about actual music composition, I won't pretend I do, the most I can do is talk about the generals of how something sounds and what I like about it. Now the tracks we've had so far almost feel like "What if the music from Dawn of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia had been composed for Curse of Darkness?".
It feels like a blend of the melody from the PS2 games and the catchy feel of the handhelds and I love it. I'm hoping we get tracks like this:
Let me crudely attempt to explain why I love this track (and maybe someone with more musical education can actually make sense of it XD). I love how this track provides the moodiness with the vocal backdrop and the sweeping instrumention throughout but it also has this really catchy frontal beat thanks to the keyboard and what I think is the bass? It feels "catchy without being too poppy but also moody without being too dark and gloomy" and that's how I've long felt about the franchise. Its got buckets of horror and Gothic motifs, themes and especially visual and musical design but its almost never been this really dark, gritty, serious game. Bloodstaind's "Unknown" track and "Galleon Minerva" hit me that same way: Melodic, yet catchy. Atmospheric and beautiful, but ultimately an adventure.
EDIT: I should also point out that the link, funny enough, leads to a huge playlist and for the curious yes, thats my personal playlist XD
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Post by allooutrick on Aug 2, 2016 17:54:43 GMT -6
This sound track is a big reason why I was willing to upgrade my order to the alchemist treasure. Gotta have a CD of this music too.
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Post by CastleDan on Sept 24, 2016 13:28:20 GMT -6
Holy Wisdom from Bloodstained and Luxurious Overture have sold me on this soundtrack. It really sets the mood just like Sotn's soundtrack did. I hope there's more in the vibe of these.
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 24, 2016 14:11:00 GMT -6
The music, I've got to say, is absolutely beautiful so far. It made my day! *(EDIT)*: It would seem that Luxurious Overture will serve as the 'Castle Entrance' theme for Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, just judging from Yamane's comment on it in Update #44. (Though it was also stated that the plans for each track is still tentative)
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Post by CastleDan on Sept 24, 2016 17:59:01 GMT -6
The music, I've got to say, is absolutely beautiful so far. It made my day! *(EDIT)*: It would seem that Luxurious Overture will serve as the 'Castle Entrance' theme for Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, just judging from Yamane's comment on it in Update #44. (Though it was also stated that the plans for each track is still tentative) Also Holy Wisdom seems to imply chapel.
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 27, 2016 7:37:53 GMT -6
At last we can talk about the unknown track...though it's no longer unknown.
Luxurious Overture was wonderful when I first heard it and it still is. If that's the entrance theme as we expect, it's an excellent lead-in to what will hopefully be an excellent game.
Holy Wisdom is also impressive, but I'm often a sucker for organ themes like that.
As to the Theme and the Voyage, I don't think there's more to be said, at least by me.
I look forward to hearing a few tracks from the other contributors as well.
EDIT: By the way, could someone fix the thread/poll title?
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 27, 2016 8:13:44 GMT -6
At last we can talk about the unknown track...though it's no longer unknown. Luxurious Overture was wonderful when I first heard it and it still is. If that's the entrance theme as we expect, it's an excellent lead-in to what will hopefully be an excellent game. Holy Wisdom is also impressive, but I'm often a sucker for organ themes like that. As to the Theme and the Voyage, I don't think there's more to be said, at least by me. I look forward to hearing a few tracks from the other contributors as well. EDIT: By the way, could someone fix the thread/poll title?That depends on Togposh, I'd think.
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 27, 2016 8:24:30 GMT -6
EDIT: By the way, could someone fix the thread/poll title? That depends on Togposh , I'd think. Well regardless, it's fixed now. Still lacking proper punctuation, but the most obvious error is fixed. ...that is, the thread title is fixed. The poll itself is another matter.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Sept 27, 2016 8:29:06 GMT -6
Bloodsatined does sound kind of neat, though >_> ...I don't believe I can edit the poll at all.
Holy Wisdom is something along the lines of what I was hoping to hear, the vocals remind me strongly of Lament of Innocence. We've filled the spots of the catchiness, energetic traversal feel of an adventure beginning and the haunting beauty of a PS2 'Vania song, I'm now hoping for things that are genre varied like SotN (Wandering Ghosts, Crystal Teardrops, etc) and more rock-oriented songs (Prologue, Dracula's Castle, The Tragic Prince).
On that note, still curious to see where Yamada's contributions fall, and where exactly they do use Cursed Orphan as I've stated before.
The "theme" song does really sound like something that would play during an introductory text scroll as the previous games have had.
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 27, 2016 9:28:35 GMT -6
Bloodsatined does sound kind of neat, though True enough...though I would presume if it's not red satin (and possibly even if it is), the combination would pretty much ruin the fabric.
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Post by CastleDan on Sept 28, 2016 11:59:05 GMT -6
I definitely would like Genre switch ups as well but I hope we get more period pieces like Holy Wisdom. Basically tracks that feel like they belong in the 1700's. Luxurious Overture would be kinda like that but it has an electronic drum beat put in. I'm talking stuff like Dance of Pearls and Woodcarving. Tracks that really take on the shape of the time period. It's so hugely important to get the feel of the time period right.
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Post by Togposh on Sept 29, 2016 15:13:26 GMT -6
That depends on Togposh , I'd think. Well regardless, it's fixed now. Still lacking proper punctuation, but the most obvious error is fixed. ...that is, the thread title is fixed. The poll itself is another matter. Well I didn't fix the thread title but I did fix the poll an hopefully there are a little less grammar errors (I never have been good at grammar or spelling so sorry about the mistakes)
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 29, 2016 16:14:07 GMT -6
Well regardless, it's fixed now. Still lacking proper punctuation, but the most obvious error is fixed. ...that is, the thread title is fixed. The poll itself is another matter. Well I didn't fix the thread title but I did fix the poll an hopefully there are a little less grammar errors (I never have been good at grammar or spelling so sorry about the mistakes) For those out there more concerned with correct grammar, I'd say it's much better now. There's no need to apologize for the mistakes, though. We understand. *EDIT*: Perhaps, after the actual OST is released, this topic will still be very much relevant.
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 30, 2016 7:32:22 GMT -6
Well I didn't fix the thread title but I did fix the poll an hopefully there are a little less grammar errors (I never have been good at grammar or spelling so sorry about the mistakes) For those out there more concerned with correct grammar, I'd say it's much better now. There's no need to apologize for the mistakes, though. We understand. *EDIT*: Perhaps, after the actual OST is released, this topic will still be very much relevant. Galamoth , I agree; this topic will likely remain relevant for quite some time, though it may not be as constant between now and the full OST reveal. Togposh , as was already said, no need to apologize for such minor mistakes, ones pretty much everyone makes from time to time. Still, since this thread will likely keep getting brought up, proper language is certainly beneficial to keep discussion focused on the actual topic of note. Less distraction from the wonderful music is definitely a good thing.
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Post by GenericSoda on Oct 1, 2016 16:58:22 GMT -6
I scrolled through really quickly to check general opinions, and I'm going to write off "Yamane is past her prime" as only being judged off of one or two songs. That being said, I'm super glad that Ippo Yamada's contributing as well, as it'll lighten the strain (In my opinion the only composers that can really carry a soundtrack entirely on their own are Koji Kondo and Motoi Sakuraba, but that's neither here nor there).
Voyage of Hope is my favorite piece so far, but I also really like Holy Wisdom. Luxurious Overture has a great bassline to work with too. I like the new sound for Cursed Orphan, but it sounds a bit too busy towards the beginning.
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Post by CastleDan on Oct 4, 2016 9:51:20 GMT -6
I need more tracks that evoke an emotion out of me or has a MOOD to it.
Tracks that are great examples are:
Requiem of the Gods Woodcarving Abandoned Pit Moonlight Nocturne Dance of Pales Garden forgotten by time
Tracks like that just get me into the world. Luxurious Overture and Holy Wisdom are definitely of that vein but I'm hoping for more brooding more atmosphere tracks in that style.
Definitely liking what i'm hearing thus far. Just hoping for less voyage and more luxurious/wisdom.
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Post by GenericSoda on Oct 22, 2016 15:03:27 GMT -6
I know you mentioned in the original post that you're not super confident in Yamada's compositions, but I'm playing through Gunvolt now and there's an impressive amount of diversity on display. I wouldn't say that any of the non-cutscene music is particularly moody or brooding but I wouldn't be surprised to hear something Yamada composes fit the bill in that department. Keleidoscope is a good example of a song that sets a mood.
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