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Post by BalancedHydra on Aug 15, 2018 9:14:49 GMT -6
Haven't heard much from you guys as far as the actual collection release itself. Who got it and what do you think? Could you repeat that? I'm having too much fun playing and complete the Buster only Challenge.
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Post by Scuttlest on Aug 15, 2018 12:05:50 GMT -6
Notice there's some kind of input delay, at least with X1. That section of the first Sigma stage where you have to use some moving platforms to climb into Sigma's base proper went from easy to a genuine nightmare.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 15, 2018 12:15:45 GMT -6
ughhhhhhh input delay strikes again
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BalancedHydra
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Post by BalancedHydra on Aug 15, 2018 12:36:06 GMT -6
I do wonder if it was intentional or if it is an error in the emulation's attempt.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Aug 15, 2018 13:23:17 GMT -6
it should never be intentional, unless perhaps it's SF5.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Aug 25, 2018 0:11:19 GMT -6
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Post by BalancedHydra on Aug 28, 2018 7:17:28 GMT -6
Galamoth Ah Yes. That Figure. Bought mine a while back.
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Post by Saint Germain on Aug 29, 2018 17:11:38 GMT -6
I wish it included megaman x command mission. Also by reading the thread I found out it's non canon
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Aug 30, 2018 4:22:36 GMT -6
I wish it included megaman x command mission. Also by reading the thread I found out it's non canon By reading through this thread, you now believe Command Mission is non-canon? That's honestly up for debate. Command Mission officially takes place after X8, regardless of whether it fits into the events leading into the Zero series.
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Post by Zechs on Aug 30, 2018 10:41:09 GMT -6
Canon or not it's still part of the timeline.
Lots of omitted things are. Like Megamissions or MegaMan & Bass 2.
What I wouldn't give for a game version of Megamissions...
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Post by Saint Germain on Sept 3, 2018 21:45:10 GMT -6
Ok thank god, video game time lines are a mess mostly because companies never really care about ironing it out and just leave it up to fans to fight over it for example the pokemon timeline. Any way I would love a command mission rerelease and a sequel maybe taking place in the elf wars.
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 5, 2018 17:44:07 GMT -6
Although, honestly, I'm still completely convinced that X6-thru-Command Mission is a separate timeline from what leads into the Zero series.
Let's review:
- In the Zero series (particularly Zero 4), it is revealed that the Eurasia Colony did impact with Earth, meaning that the Hunters failed to stop it in time. Hence why the majority of the world's remaining human population live in Neo Arcadia.
- However, Zero never turned "maverick" (which is exactly what happens in X5's alternate path if you fail to destroy Eurasia). Instead, Zero voluntarily sealed himself away sometime after, and Dr. Weil stole Zero's original body in order to (at least as it says in the English translation of "Complete Works") install his "Omega" program into it. Meanwhile, Zero's "mind" was transferred to a copy body by Ciel's ancestor. "Omega Zero" would go on to wipe out 90% of the world's reploids at Weil's command.
- In X6, however, the very beginning of that game's story confirms that Eurasia was successfully destroyed (meaning the majority of humanity was not wiped out); thus preventing the state of the world as seen in the Zero series. The conclusion of the Nightmare Incident also meant that the majority of Reploids were not wiped out either.
You all see where I'm going with this, right?
X6 & onwards is a decidedly more optimistic route than the events that lead to the Zero series.
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Post by Zechs on Sept 5, 2018 18:19:51 GMT -6
Its certainly one way to view it. To each their own. It's how you perceive it, it's how it makes sense to you. As long as that's what keeps you coming back to the franchise, it has done it's job.
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 6, 2018 7:14:48 GMT -6
Galamoth , don't forget the legendary (heh) name-drop that only happens on the Zero goes Maverick path. Also, as the Megaman Knowledge Base puts it, "In the canon scenario, Eurasia was destroyed by the shuttle, but its debris still hit the Earth, causing enough damage to force humans to live underground due to the rampant pollution." This is indeed shown in X6; the crash site is where Gate finds the piece of Zero which leads to everything that happens in that game (as well as Sigma's return in subsequent games). When you get into it, Neo Arcadia is less about being the ONLY survivable area than being a society CONVINCED it's the only way to survive. After more than a century (not to mention the totalitarian rule of Copy X), it's become stagnant and self-deluded. Aiding in destroying that was arguably the only good thing Weil ever did. Personally, I see the return of nature and Neo Arcadian refugees to Area Zero in Z4 more like a reference to humanity eventually returning to something like the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone after nature running free for so long (as well as recovering/adapting) alongside the radiation/pollution. While Eurasia's crash is indeed the source of Area Zero, it's not the exclusive source of massive human death. As you referenced, the Elf Wars (which occur AFTER the entirety of the X series seen thus far) were responsible for the death of 90% of all Reploids. However, it was ALSO responsible for the death of 60% of humanity. Frankly, humanity has a LOT of scars in its collective psyche. X6 - X8 and CM aren't necessarily more optimistic than the Zero series...they're just the calm before the storm. Personally, I'm fine with just the robotics vs. networks timeline split, but to each one's own headcanon. Also, can I say I just really like the single page Archie made for its final issue?
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Post by RichterB on Sept 6, 2018 12:29:50 GMT -6
One addition: It seems to me that X6 talks about humanity living in shelters, but IIRC, by X8, the Reploids have apparently helped humanity start toward a migration to space with a space elevator.
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 6, 2018 12:48:06 GMT -6
Eyep, Jakob is significant as it's the first orbital elevator, the predecessor to those mentioned in the Zero series (as well as Command Mission).
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 6, 2018 19:30:49 GMT -6
Galamoth , don't forget the legendary (heh) name-drop that only happens on the Zero goes Maverick path. Also, as the Megaman Knowledge Base puts it, "In the canon scenario, Eurasia was destroyed by the shuttle, but its debris still hit the Earth, causing enough damage to force humans to live underground due to the rampant pollution." This is indeed shown in X6; the crash site is where Gate finds the piece of Zero which leads to everything that happens in that game (as well as Sigma's return in subsequent games). When you get into it, Neo Arcadia is less about being the ONLY survivable area than being a society CONVINCED it's the only way to survive. After more than a century (not to mention the totalitarian rule of Copy X), it's become stagnant and self-deluded. Aiding in destroying that was arguably the only good thing Weil ever did. Personally, I see the return of nature and Neo Arcadian refugees to Area Zero in Z4 more like a reference to humanity eventually returning to something like the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone after nature running free for so long (as well as recovering/adapting) alongside the radiation/pollution. While Eurasia's crash is indeed the source of Area Zero, it's not the exclusive source of massive human death. As you referenced, the Elf Wars (which occur AFTER the entirety of the X series seen thus far) were responsible for the death of 90% of all Reploids. However, it was ALSO responsible for the death of 60% of humanity. Frankly, humanity has a LOT of scars in its collective psyche. X6 - X8 and CM aren't necessarily more optimistic than the Zero series...they're just the calm before the storm. Personally, I'm fine with just the robotics vs. networks timeline split, but to each one's own headcanon. Also, can I say I just really like the single page Archie made for its final issue? See, it's easy to just go ahead and draw that conclusion, also based on X6's opening scene. However: The main point of contention is that Area Zero is still sealed off until recently in Z3 & Z4, and it is mentioned as "one of the last habitable areas on Earth" alongside Neo Arcadia. Nature in the area was still highly-dependent on machines that were miraculously still working after the colony impact. The events of X6 imply that the damage from the remaining colony debris, even immediately after the impact, wasn't even that bad. Just enough to force humans underground, away from the pollution. The area that would've otherwise been "Area Zero" recovers, at the earliest, by the time of X7. And even what RichterB implied introduces a counterpoint; There is no actual mention of "space elevators" in any of the Zero games. I've scoured through the game-scripts and found no hints. The only mention of a "giant elevator" is for Tretista Kelverian's stage in Z3, and it's for underground excavation & movement of "E-Crystals"(the main energy resource of the Zero-series). For something that may actually be a continuation beyond X6~CM, rather than an alternate series of events from X5, the implications are much darker than what X6 is telling us (even considering the Elf Wars records don't specify a purposely direct attempt at destroying the recovering nature, just the genocide of reploids and half of humanity). Not to mention that Elf Wars records (found in Z3's "Sunken Library" stage) imply Eurasia's impact was unabated. And then there's this (which I only just found within the past hour): Vile's Incident I'd say this definitely confirms my theory. In the Zero-series timeline, Eurasia had crashed unabated; completely contradicting what is established in X6. Now all that's left is for Capcom to make a Mega Man X9 to finally set this straight.
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Post by Zechs on Sept 6, 2018 23:31:16 GMT -6
Erasia is too large for a shuttle without explosives to completely destroy. There would still be large chunks that wouldn't burn up on their way down. Area Zero is still screwed either way. The colony was big enough for Sigma to use for his virus enmass since no matter how it fell, the virus would be a massive ground zero before the spread.
With impact destruction, with pollution and with the spread out debris, it's a larger fallout zone than one object. Including what remained from the shuttle.
But that's only part of it. Gate wandering ground zero and locating Zero's DNA and creating his reploids from it were a big part too. They were not affected by the virus or later Nightmare. But no mention if they we're carriers. Since we know from Day of Sigma that any reploid or machine will go berserk and destroy whatever. Wouldn't be a far fetched to imagine other replies or mechanoloids attempting to repair the area only to get infected and further spread such infection and destruction.
But because X6 is Zero centered basically, we get an epologue at an unknown date of Zero sealing himself. X7 reflects upon this with an ending or scene with Zero (don't remember which) of Zero awakening from his seal and fighting X.
Those we're forshadowing. If only because MY and Zero 1 were being developed righly same time to the point they added such in one to hint the other. Between X8 and Zero 1, those Orbital Elevators from X8 that lasted the Elf Wars were converted to towers for leader types in Neo Arcadia. Copy X inhabits one such tower. If I recall, another is explored in Z2 or Z3.
Given the century between Zero's seal and Z1, a lot has happened. I mean we get rough year marker to work with but they all fit if only placed by suspected year progression. Plus any similarities between Copy Chips reaction to Force Metal, Cyber Elfs and the technology that created Copy X and the Big 4. It's all domino, which it's meant to be. The only separator is in some interview, might be in the Zero Complete Works, where someone states Command Mission is a possible future. But that doesn't omit it from the timeline nor does it neglect the connections between it all.
But we see it a little different from others; different details, different connections or lack there of, etc. Some of it is left open for player involvement.
I mean there are plenty of omitted games and such that are neglected that are all part of the overall timeline. But the connections are left vague so players aren't left out of the progression and the retcons.
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Brainiac
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Post by Brainiac on Sept 7, 2018 7:00:07 GMT -6
Zechs is correct. Orbital elevators are part of the setting (basically part of the background fleshing out the world itself) from the start. Neo Arcadia Tower was converted from one damaged/destroyed in the Maverick/Elf Wars; it literally says "orbital elevator shaft" on the outside of the tower if you pay attention. Zero 3 has another leading to Area X-2 just as NAT connected to Area X 36000 kilometers up (and multiple others can be seen as you head upwards). It's not script-based discussion, it's visual information - in other words, it's shown, not told. X8's Jakob and CM's Babel are basically forging that connection as the prototype in Jakob's case and the early service forms in Babel. Heck, it's possible Neo Arcadia Tower IS Jakob a few centuries later. So yeah, I tend to think there was long-term damage to Area Zero, it was made into an Exclusion Zone and an environmental recovery system was put in place, then the Maverick Wars and eventually the Elf Wars proceed to further devastate the rest of the planet, leaving that banned area alone, ignored, and virtually forgotten for a century or two. Let's be honest, if the entire planet is being devastated and more than half of the human population is dying, things are likely to get lost in the shuffle. So yeah, maybe it's a bit of a mental leap, but I prefer the singular robotics/network split. Capcom's welcome to change/clarify things if they like (and you might even be able to make an argument if you stretch Zero's MvC3 ending), but without more X or Zero games, I think the timeline is fairly easy to make consistent at least as much as the jump between Classic and X. I also personally find the overall flow of relative optimism (Classic) to greater cynicism (X) to deep pessimism (Zero) to the return of optimism (ZX) to be quite fascinating (and that's not even getting into Legends).
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Galamoth
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Post by Galamoth on Sept 7, 2018 10:24:09 GMT -6
Since we know from Day of Sigma that any reploid or machine will go berserk and destroy whatever. Wouldn't be a far fetched to imagine other replies or mechanoloids attempting to repair the area only to get infected and further spread such infection and destruction. I wouldn't rely too much on what the "Day of Sigma" shorts show, though. There are too many inconsistent changes, including Dr. Cain's death & Sigma's very motivation for starting the Maverick War. Maverick Hunter X (PSP) may or may not have been originally intended as a "retcon" of the X-series, but Capcom never went through with it; so I highly doubt anything established by MHX can be taken too seriously. X7 reflects upon this with an ending or scene with Zero (don't remember which) of Zero awakening from his seal and fighting X. Actually, Zero's X7 ending is just a nightmare he had. That doesn't really happen, as the ending shows him waking up after the confrontation. Between X8 and Zero 1, those Orbital Elevators from X8 that lasted the Elf Wars were converted to towers for leader types in Neo Arcadia. Copy X inhabits one such tower. If I recall, another is explored in Z2 or Z3. I had to boot up my original copy of Zero 1 again to find your example, and yes, it turns out that the Neo Arcadia Tower stage has one specific section that reads "Orbital Elevator Shaft" in the background. And you're also correct in that it's effectively defunct (in its original function), having been converted into a defense base against intruders. There is no indication that it's the Jakob or Babel Elevators, though, the former of which was located in the Galapagos Islands (which in the Zero-series' time would most likely be uninhabitable). However, Neo Arcadia's true location in the world is never specified. Given the century between Zero's seal and Z1, a lot has happened. I mean we get rough year marker to work with but they all fit if only placed by suspected year progression. There's even a discrepancy here: Mega Man X: Command Mission pushes the time to an unspecified year in 22XX. The first Mega Man Zero game is confirmed to take place in 22XX ( "Over a century after Sigma's defeat"). This has never been contradicted or officially retconned. Mega Man Zero officially takes place exactly 102 years after Zero seals himself away. If Command Mission & the Zero series are part of the same timeline, then the Zero series should rightly take place in 23XX instead. ^ This plays into what you've already said about the Mega Man Zero Complete Works book. Not only is Command Mission a possible future, but its events chronologically take place directly after the events of X8 (despite the game itself being released before X8). ... .... In all honesty, the more we continue to debate this (which is extremely fun), the more convinced I become in the validity of my own theory.
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