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Post by Galamoth on Jun 13, 2017 12:17:11 GMT -6
Rejoice, fellow METROID fans!
(This "first look" trailer doesn't even show much of anything; yet I still threw my wallet at the screen.)
(The long-awaited remake of "Metroid II: Return of Samus", and possibly why AM2R was taken down.)
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Post by Brainiac on Jun 13, 2017 13:24:34 GMT -6
Granted, it's 2.5D rather than old-school sprite-based 2D, so in many ways it's very much an entirely different style of game, but still...Samus Returns has to be better than AM2R or I'm still gonna be cranky at Ninty.
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Post by fatihG on Jun 13, 2017 13:42:37 GMT -6
Also the 3ds game is being made by MercurySteam.
No word on the developer of Prime.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 13, 2017 13:44:35 GMT -6
Also the 3ds game is being made by MercurySteam. No word on the developer of Prime. I'm going to guess "Retro Studios".
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Post by Brainiac on Jun 13, 2017 14:16:36 GMT -6
Also the 3ds game is being made by MercurySteam. No word on the developer of Prime. I'm going to guess "Retro Studios". IGN doesn't think so.
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Post by Scuttlest on Jun 13, 2017 14:17:45 GMT -6
Taking down AM2R just so they could make their own AM2R.
Joking aside, it's a good looking 3DS title. And as for Prime 4, it was the only brand new game I saw anywhere at E3 that was immediately in the 'must have' category of things. (Trailers for some already known games were good, but that's not Metroid related.)
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Post by Goobsausage on Jun 13, 2017 14:22:07 GMT -6
I'm pretty happy with everything I saw of Metroid 2 during the Treehouse stream. If any Metroid title needed a complete overhaul, it's that one.
Seeing Prime 4 get announced/confirmed was exciting, but I still want to see some gameplay of before getting on the hype train. I hope it ends up being more like Prime 1 and 2 and less like 3.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 13, 2017 15:30:06 GMT -6
Cool! A "talented new development team", but it will still have Kensuke Tanabe.
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Post by RichterB on Jun 13, 2017 15:41:37 GMT -6
Metroid Prime 4 BETTER have the ability to zoom out into a 3rd-person view. In this day and age, there is no reason for it to stay 1st person (yes, morph ball segments have always been 3rd person, but you know what I mean). Metroid Prime's 1st-person formula ran its course. So, I am very concerned about Prime 4. The fact that they are going back to the "Prime" title itself suggests to me they want to capture some nostalgia vs. pushing the boundaries.
A Metroid II remake was a nice surprise...especially for 3DS...but a remake vs. a new game isn't exactly what I was hoping for. Still, Metroid II probably has the most to gain from a remake over other entries.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 13, 2017 16:16:47 GMT -6
It wouldn't be a Prime game if they added in 3rd-person view. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the 1st person formula, and it's amazingly immersive when used with the wiimote. They're making another Prime game because of the high demand from fans who want to once again be immersed but couldn't since the last Prime game a decade ago. I'm a bit concerned with Retro Studios not handling this project, but then again the people who worked on the original trilogy aren't in Retro Studios anymore.
The remake for Metroid 2 is awesome news, but I'm not as excited as I should be after being spoiled by AMR2.
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Post by BalancedHydra on Jun 13, 2017 16:30:39 GMT -6
Nintendo play their cards right this time around. Why settle for one MOAB when you can launch two and that both of them are from the same family.
Good Job Nintendo.
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Post by RichterB on Jun 13, 2017 17:15:21 GMT -6
It wouldn't be a Prime game if they added in 3rd-person view. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the 1st person formula, and it's amazingly immersive when used with the wiimote. They're making another Prime game because of the high demand from fans who want to once again be immersed but couldn't since the last Prime game a decade ago. I'm a bit concerned with Retro Studios not handling this project, but then again the people who worked on the original trilogy aren't in Retro Studios anymore. The remake for Metroid 2 is awesome news, but I'm not as excited as I should be after being spoiled by AMR2. To be clear, Metroid Prime 1 rivals Super Metroid as my favorite entry, and I really liked the Wii Remote controls added later on. But depending on how you want to count it, this will be the fifth or sixth 1st-person Metroid game. And I have seen diminishing returns in terms of innovation. The puzzles and environments have been pretty consistently above average or great...but very few (if any?) have been dependent on 1st-person-centric gameplay. Meanwhile, there is a lot of untapped potential in the realm of 3rd-person 3D for Samus.
Other M, flawed as it was, gave glimpses of what could be. Samus is a naturally acrobatic character who should be able to interact and survey her surrounding environments dynamically. The utilization of the Speed Booster in Other M was a concrete example of something that could not have been seamlessly done in 1st-person, where you are gauging pace and spatial depth to a dynamic interactive effect, interacting with both the floor and the ceiling. Honestly, to do any kind of Morph Ball or Space Jump/Screw Attack, the Prime formula already depended on using 3rd person, so why not go all in rather than limiting the level design. More importantly, though, I just think there is a lot of potential for new power-ups in 3rd person compared to 1st person. The lack of new, meaningful power-ups in the Prime games was a letdown that became more significant with each game. Usually it came down to visors, or mechanic gimmicks like the PED powers or light and dark ammo. Amusing, but nothing to really make exploring the world that much more exciting, like when #2 added the Spider Ball or #3 added the Grappling Beam. Which brings me to another concern, which is the potential overabundance of scanning in the 1st-person formula. At the end of the day, the best solution would be to have both views, as several other franchise games have done over the years. But if you're going to give me one view, I want the potential for growth in the 3rd-person realm. No offense, but just to make sure I'm being clear, saying a 1st-person-only 3D Metroid at this point is the only way t do it would be like someone saying Zelda: Breath of the Wild should have been 1st-person-only. As a longtime Metroid fan, I'm really frustrated with the back-and-forth growing pains the series has had. In some ways, it mirrors Castlevania's struggles. Right now, I have to assume these efforts are to get Metroid back on its feet, though. Which probably means more patience is required for wider-scale innovation. PS: On the other hand, to be fair, since they used the "Prime" title, people are going to have expectations of 1st person...I just wish it wouldn't come down to playing with fans like that. Metroid deserves more.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 13, 2017 17:54:10 GMT -6
RichterB At the very least, regardless of what direction Prime 4 really decides to take, the Metroid Prime games (considering the IP they're part of) are among the very few 1st-Person Shooters I personally ever had any interest in playing. Aside from Star Wars: Republic Commando, I don't remember any other shooting game that I really had fun playing. For Metroid fans that aren't into FPS games, wouldn't we all still recommend the Prime games?
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Post by RichterB on Jun 13, 2017 18:33:33 GMT -6
RichterB At the very least, regardless of what direction Prime 4 really decides to take, the Metroid Prime games (considering the IP they're part of) are among the very few 1st-Person Shooters I personally ever had any interest in playing. Aside from Star Wars: Republic Commando, I don't remember any other shooting game that I really had fun playing. For Metroid fans that aren't into FPS games, wouldn't we all still recommend the Prime games? I've never been an FPS fan, either, but as I said in my second post above, I respect and enjoy the Prime games. The FPS (or FP-Adventure) style works for them. I'd recommend them, especially Prime 1. (Though, I had a friend decide to start with Prime 3 and said he couldn't get into the Metroid series because of it.) At the end of the day, I just personally feel the Prime games have become a "crutch" for the Metroid series and are holding it back. (To my recollection, the only reason Prime was 1st person to begin with is Retro had trouble figuring out 3rd person, so Miyamoto told them to just stick with the 1st-person view.) Now, there's the old saying "safe rather than sorry," but I've kind of seen what the Prime games are at this point, and as a fan of a series that has a really cool-looking main character who is prone to flipping and flying across the screen, I'm ready for Nintendo to take some more risks with a different camera perspective. I was very happy they tried Other M, even if it turned out to be a really mixed bag, because it made me see a future of possibilities for the franchise. I'm going to use one last modified analogy here: Let's say Zelda: Ocarina of Time came out and it was entirely 1st person. And because of its success and fan reaction, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, etc, etc were all 1st person-only. Would you just accept that Zelda should be FPS (FP-Adventure) for decades, or would you wonder about 3rd person 3D and what advantages there might be to take advantage of there? (And to reiterate, Other M wasn't completely what I was talking about; it was more like an experimental testing ground.) Wii U Nintendo Land's Metroid Blast only added fuel to my curiosity, as it showed some interesting demo-like fundamentals of a different camera. Throw the lessons of Other M and Metroid Blast's camerawork into a blender with the puzzle design and [more of the] atmosphere of Metroid Prime and then heavily innovate the power-ups based on what the camerawork changes in interactive level design, and you'll have the 3D Metroid I've been waiting for. THAT is worth slapping the name Metroid 5 on it, as far as I'm concerned. So, maybe Prime 4 is just a stepping stone... As far as what to expect from Prime 4, going through IGN articles, it suggests that it will be 1st person, not Retro Studios, and it could involve the story of Sylux and the Galactic Federation that Tanabe said he wanted to tell after Federation Force. 2015 interview: "I said this at the beginning, but I’m not involved in the 2D Metroid games that [Yoshio] Sakamoto works on...I still feel like there's a little more work left for me to do in the Metroid Prime series. I can’t say when, but I want to make another one...[Sylux's] actually chasing after Samus, and that’s where [Metroid Prime 3] ends...There’s still more I want to build around the story of Sylux and Samus. There’s something going on between them. I want to make a game that touches upon [it]...I’m also thinking that, in that eventual game between Sylux and Samus that might get made, that I want to involve the [Galactic] Federation as well...So it would be a good idea to release a game like Federation Forces to flesh out its role in the galaxy before moving on to that."
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Post by GenericSoda on Jun 13, 2017 20:22:15 GMT -6
RichterB At the very least, regardless of what direction Prime 4 really decides to take, the Metroid Prime games (considering the IP they're part of) are among the very few 1st-Person Shooters I personally ever had any interest in playing. Aside from Star Wars: Republic Commando, I don't remember any other shooting game that I really had fun playing. For Metroid fans that aren't into FPS games, wouldn't we all still recommend the Prime games? To be fair, that's because Prime is less a FPS than it is an adventure game disguised as an FPS. I'm super happy about all of this, I'll buy the hell out of Samus Returns. I've tried again and again to play Metroid 2 and I just can't get into it because of the cramped screen and poor environmental details. The melee attack reminds me of Other M, but since it's always in 2D i think it could work pretty well.
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 13, 2017 20:42:54 GMT -6
It'd be great if they did that for Metroid 5 which might be called Metroid Dread if they're still going with that. For now though, I just want to be locked in Samus's helmet and be fully immersed exploring whatever planet her ship takes her while listening to the awe inspiring soundtrack, and Prime 4 will hopefully do just that. I think everyone is thinking that too when they see the Prime title, and thus was extremely disappointed when Federation Forces was announced.
Also don't skimp on the scanning, that was an ingenious way of storytelling while guiding the player that only served to up the immersion. And most of it was optional too.
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Post by RichterB on Jun 13, 2017 20:55:07 GMT -6
Two side notes: 1.) It has its issues, but I still find the original Metroid 2 to be pretty charming in its uniqueness. As I think about it and watch the footage, my biggest concern now is if Mercury Steam adapts too many cues from Super Metroid and the like, to the point that the game loses its own identity. I enjoyed Zero Mission the first time through, but over the years I've realized it lost the feelings of the NES Metroid as it adapted so many powerups and such from Super Metroid. Rather than remaking Metroid 1, it felt more like it was remixing Super Metroid. It's kind of like how Street Fighter games, post Street Fighter III, try way too hard to include every other character from every entry to please fans, rather than building the brand and letting its entries stand on their own. 2.) It could be that Metroid Prime 4, if it does turn out to be the exact same format as its predecessors, is an intentional choice to send a message to fans of FPS that Switch will be a "mature sci-fi/FPS-friendly" console. We all know that Metroid is not inherently an FPS, even in the 1st-person-centric Prime formula, but "optically," it's been a thing over Prime's history. Marketing-wise--and in some cases the way the formula has been altered to have multiplayer modes and active team-ups with Federation Marines--it seems like the Prime series is trying to give the outward impression that you could have Halo-type stuff/experiences on a Nintendo system. Rather than Metroid being its own thing, it seems like it is sometimes used as a marketing substitute for a big FPS title, which would be all the more reason not to try a different setup. But here's hoping I'm off on this. It'd be great if they did that for Metroid 5 which might be called Metroid Dread if they're still going with that. For now though, I just want to be locked in Samus's helmet and be fully immersed exploring whatever planet her ship takes her while listening to the awe inspiring soundtrack, and Prime 4 will hopefully do just that. I think everyone is thinking that too when they see the Prime title, and thus was extremely disappointed when Federation Forces was announced. Also don't skimp on the scanning, that was an ingenious way of storytelling while guiding the player that only served to up the immersion. And most of it was optional too. Ah, yes, the infamous Metroid Dread. I have a feeling that game and title are DOA by now, but that would be interesting. If the scanning is going to be a big deal--and yes, it did add to the storytelling-- let's not have it be essential to getting the 100% ending. It's too annoying to be worried about getting the data on each and every enemy when you're trying to beat them and progress through the game. One of the worst feelings in a Prime game is realizing you took down some rare or one-of-a-kind enemy without scanning them properly. Personally, I liked the way that scanning was made more of a secondary thing in Other M. (EDIT: Scanning affected only bonus content, not actual story ending) As for Federation Forces, the way the Prime saga is going, if Tanabe is to be believed, there's going to be more of a Federation Forces vibe to it as Samus interacts with more marines and bounty hunters again. I would guess it'll be more toward Metroid Prime 3 than the others. As long as its balanced, that could be all right. I mean, any post Fusion story is definitely going to have to have Federation individuals involved, since Samus is in some ways a "wanted woman" now after the incidents in Fusion. So, maybe this could build into that development. At the end of the day, I didn't fall in love with Metroid because of the Prime series, and I'm still looking for something else; so if Prime 4 is more of the same, I'll just have to take it for what it is and hope for something else down the line*. (Heck, I'm still waiting for a 3D Castlevania with actual, consequential 3D action-platforming, and that hasn't been done since the Nintendo 64 titles! Talk about frustrating!) I think you already said it, but if there was to be a Prime 4, it would have possibly been better off on Wii U in terms of the Gamepad's abilities. But such is life. *I think I'm in a strange space as a Metroid fan and gamer. I'm not someone who's looking for Metroid to be "verbatim old-school 2D" or "faithful to Prime's FPS 3D from 2002." I'm in a third camp. So while some say it's the "best of both worlds" to get Metroid 2 remade in 2.5D and a Metroid Prime 4, to me it feels more like I'm being placated as a Metroid fan and that there isn't a confident vision for the franchise moving forward after the blowback from Other M. Seeing Metroid "Prime" again--a side-story series--suggests to me there isn't confidence in the brand to stand on its own. And that makes me sad. Still, deep down, I am happy to see the brand acknowledged and given some new-ish content that's got to be more fitting than Federation Force.
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Post by Scuttlest on Jun 13, 2017 21:07:28 GMT -6
Might be worth mentioning that we have some new amiibo for the 3DS game.
The Metroid amiibo looks good, but the Samus one looks a bit iffy with the excessively large shoulders. (How she used to look like, I know, but I prefer the shoulder proportions of her Smash amiibo.)
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Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Jun 13, 2017 21:18:25 GMT -6
Just one thing, scanning didn't play a part in what ending you got. Yes, you were given a percentage, but they were for unlocking bonus content like concept pictures. What does count is the item collection rate just like every other Metroid game out there. It would be terrible if it did count towards what ending you got.
Anyways, the Mario and Sonic franchise's main titles don't deviate too far from their traditional gameplay styles and still remain mostly successful, so I'm not too worried. The fact that so many people are going "Nintendo won E3" after the unveiling of Prime 4 shows that Nintendo won't be giving up on the franchise anytime soon. After the inevitable success of the Metroid 2 remake, you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll begin working on Metroid 5 or Dread.
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Post by Galamoth on Jun 13, 2017 22:58:06 GMT -6
Scuttlest I heard the Metroid amiibo is squishy (the familiar transparent-green "hood").
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