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Post by mozalbete on Jan 27, 2016 16:10:57 GMT -6
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 27, 2016 16:21:31 GMT -6
mozalbete, I haven't clicked those links yet (though I probably know what they are already lol), but I would like this post A TRILLION TIMES. It's basically what I said long, long ago in this and other threads isn't it? Yo, Lutel is still around? Hahaha...I'm sure they've stepped up their website by now. They always offered nice, complete packages with scabbard/belt and the prices used to be great considering the Czech exchange rate.
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Post by Ciel on Jan 27, 2016 20:45:28 GMT -6
No, we NEED some oversized and unrealistic weapons, and glorious mystical katanas that has been folded over one zillion times. IGAvania games has never been about realistic scenarios or weapons (hell, do you remember Claimh Solais from Sorrow games? Or Crissaegrim? Or that weapons from SotN which could summon undead minions?), and I don't think they should drop this philosophy for the sake of realism. Yeah, realistic weapons can be cool and all, but they shouldn't be the main weapons. After all, we're killing demons, vampires and all kind of gothic monster here.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 27, 2016 21:21:51 GMT -6
You're right, they haven't been about that, and that's why him and I felt the need to point that out lol. I wouldn't say every weapon needs to have realistic proportions (and proportions are the more important thing to me), but representation of these types of swords at least as well as SotN would be ideal. As someone pointed out a while back on this subject, it may have very well been the resolution of the DS that necessitated this - for something to be detailed, the sprite had to be big.
After learning a lot about swords, I came to appreciate very much the science of what makes them weapons. This real-world practicality of their function became the most attractive thing about them to me, and I think anyone from similar studies or martial arts would feel similarly. A big, honking 2x your height, foot-wide sword is not a sword at all - it's almost pointless to have an edge on the thing at all. I'm not one of these guys who would whine about it not being practical for a person to swing or it just not being graceful, blah blah, I mean really more like...you wouldn't have to worry about your strength to swing it as much as the material of the weapon itself holding together. Where the blade and handle conjoins is such a structural fallacy that it will fall apart. Even in real, normal-looking weapons, this is a really important aspect of making something that can even be called a sword - it has to have a significant ratio of the blade itself inside the handle to avoid breaking - not only just that, but what they call radiused shoulders in that part of the weapon's design to lend more strength to that crucial area to handle the stress of it being a thing.
Now, this being a video game, we don't have to worry about all of that. It just helps the feeling of actually using a sword to do sword things, you know, when the feel and function of it is represented well enough on the screen. Fantasy designs are fine! The Lord of the Rings weapons are what got me interested in all of this stuff to begin with. However, with as much respect as Igarashi pays to mythology, his own lore, monster designs and so on, it would follow to do the same with weapons. Like I said, we can have some crazy big car door weapons or whatever, but I'd like to see just as many or hopefully more historic-inspired designs. SotN was kind of on the right track there. Curse of Darkness even had a schiavona.
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Post by Redogan on Jan 27, 2016 22:42:11 GMT -6
No, we NEED some oversized and unrealistic weapons, and glorious mystical katanas that has been folded over one zillion times. IGAvania games has never been about realistic scenarios or weapons (hell, do you remember Claimh Solais from Sorrow games? Or Crissaegrim? Or that weapons from SotN which could summon undead minions?), and I don't think they should drop this philosophy for the sake of realism. Yeah, realistic weapons can be cool and all, but they shouldn't be the main weapons. After all, we're killing demons, vampires and all kind of gothic monster here. Ah, Sword of Dawn. I remember spamming that move as fast as I could to see how many undead knights, archers, and mages I could get on-screen at once. Good times.
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Post by Quintalian on Jan 27, 2016 23:27:02 GMT -6
Don't worry about realistic weapons. They'll be in there, and they'll be easy to get. Then, you'll move on as they'll be far outclassed by the ridiculous, over the top mystical weapons. All my favorite IGAvania weapons are outrageous as heck and I love 'em for it. Sword of Dawn, Fist of Tulkas, Positron Rifle, Claimh Solais, Nebula -- good stuff.
(While spamming Crissaegrim is cathartic, I'll admit that relying on your Short Sword for a whole run can be fun.)
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Post by Redogan on Jan 28, 2016 8:34:37 GMT -6
Yeah, I sometimes have self-imposed restrictions when I do SotN runs. Examples are:
No Crissaegrim No Shield Rod No Jewel Knuckles early No Duplicator
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 28, 2016 9:07:33 GMT -6
Jewel knuckles? I don't even remember those being that good.
By the time you can get the Crissaegrim and especially the duplicator, you've probably got enough other ridiculous things anyway haha. Before I even found/used the Crissaegrim, I was on the Osafune Katana, which I hardly ever hear people talk about. It had an invincible teleport speciak attack that almost canceled into itself lol, plus a back-forward special too for extra damage. It was one of those weapons that had two specials...
The Sword of Dawn was indeed neat, if not so great to actually fight things with lol.
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Post by Quintalian on Jan 28, 2016 11:45:42 GMT -6
Jewel Knuckles, if you get them ASAP via the hidden elevator, are way overpowered compared to anything else at that point. Osafune Katana is a good one, too. Actually, when I first got a Crissaegrim, I didn't bother to use it for the longest time because its attack power was lower than what I was using. It wasn't until I decided to field test every single item that I realized I'd been sitting on a murder machine for hours and hours.
Sword of Dawn is fun to mess around with, but to solely rely upon it for attacking is clumsy. It'd have been even better if it the summons weren't totally random. If it had various inputs and/or dedicated your usual spell commands to summoning particular Dawn Warriors, it may have felt more satisfying to use. (I mean, does anyone use Summon Spirit or Tetra Spirit? I didn't.) Alternatively, if Sword of Dawn was a familiar, it could continuously summon for you, and at higher levels would call summons faster, or allow more summons at the same time, or call the rare summons more often.
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Post by Dengojin on Jan 28, 2016 11:56:14 GMT -6
Crystallized Claymore <3
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Post by Redogan on Jan 28, 2016 12:10:52 GMT -6
I actually used both Summon Spirit and Tetra Spirit pretty often early on. It does good damage on the early enemies. As for the Jewel Knuckles, it is as Quintalian pointed out. If you get the Jewel Knuckles early, they will be stronger than any weapons you come across from quite some time. I often use weaker weapons (swords mostly) because I prefer them to fist type weapons. I mostly prefer axes, flails, maces, scythes, and halberds. The standard sword types (straight swords, curved swords, katanas, greatswords) are all good. I'm not big on rapiers and other thrust-type weapons. Some spears are pretty fun though. Also not a big fan of daggers and really short swords. This is what I want in Bloodstained, but with a cool crystal-curse style:
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 28, 2016 12:34:45 GMT -6
Badelaire, bastard sword, basilard, chakram, bwaka knife, claymore, cutlass, estoc, falchion, flamberge, gladius, brass knuckles, rapier, shotel, saber, talwar, broadsword, the first 2 shuriken, boomerang, tonfas, zwei hander, dynamite, tnt, partizan, spear, lance, theres no shortage of real world weapons in igas games
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Post by Astaroth on Jan 28, 2016 13:05:00 GMT -6
Yeah, up until the ps2 era (and still present in handhelds) pixels and polygons necessitated larger and more stylized representations of weapons for both recognition and usefulbess, a 6 inch dagger on a ps1 screen would be like 4 pixels long in sotn and a pixel wide, an estoc would still be 1 pixel wide but be maybe 40 pixels long assuming a 5 foot blade, now take a claymore, itd be 2 pixels wide and have the same 40 pixel length, with quintillons that span at most 1x8 pixels, a lot of realistic weapons wouldve become too short to be useful and theyd all be grey sticks with a few pixels difference between them
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 28, 2016 13:10:12 GMT -6
Yeah Astaroth, the same level of representation of weapons done in SotN is all I could ask for, honestly.
edit: I would be speaking from frustration with other games, really. Most other Japanese-developed games or media depicting Western swords have them as being often ridiculously large, even in 3D representations. It's really only things like Souls games, an Elder Scrolls game or The Witcher that you would see a two-handed sword have more of a sensible design. Recent Final Fantasy swords look too stupid for me to even enjoy the game so much (I'm picturing Tidus' right now lol).
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Post by Ciel on Jan 28, 2016 13:52:07 GMT -6
Yeah Astaroth, the same level of representation of weapons done in SotN is all I could ask for, honestly. edit: I would be speaking from frustration with other games, really. Most other Japanese-developed games or media depicting Western swords have them as being often ridiculously large, even in 3D representations. It's really only things like Souls games, an Elder Scrolls game or The Witcher that you would see a two-handed sword have more of a sensible design. Recent Final Fantasy swords look too stupid for me to even enjoy the game so much (I'm picturing Tidus' right now lol). That's because JRPG tends to be more fantastical and unrealistic, while WRPG (western RPG) focus on a practical design and world. And this is why I prefer JRPG over WRPG. Games that the focus isn't realism shouldn't be realistic in the first place. Ok, if you're talking about a simulator or a game that takes place in a real-like world, then indeed it needs to be realistic. But hey, the game has magic, dragons, demons and other fantastic things, it isn't realistic anymore. Why would a game should try to be "real" when the very fundamentals of it aren't?
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Post by Galamoth on Jan 28, 2016 18:06:44 GMT -6
I actually used both Summon Spirit and Tetra Spirit pretty often early on. It does good damage on the early enemies. As for the Jewel Knuckles, it is as Quintalian pointed out. If you get the Jewel Knuckles early, they will be stronger than any weapons you come across from quite some time. I often use weaker weapons (swords mostly) because I prefer them to fist type weapons. I mostly prefer axes, flails, maces, scythes, and halberds. The standard sword types (straight swords, curved swords, katanas, greatswords) are all good. I'm not big on rapiers and other thrust-type weapons. Some spears are pretty fun though. Also not a big fan of daggers and really short swords. This is what I want in Bloodstained, but with a cool crystal-curse style: I haven't seen any Bloodstained fan-art of a "crystal-cursed" double-sided battle axe... Though, I have seen this! A "Glass" (Malachite) War-Axe from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. For a battle-axe weapon in Bloodstained, they could easily get some inspiration from this design. There are already several points on this weapon's design where stained-glass crystal themes could easily be implemented.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Jan 28, 2016 20:55:37 GMT -6
Yeah Astaroth, the same level of representation of weapons done in SotN is all I could ask for, honestly. edit: I would be speaking from frustration with other games, really. Most other Japanese-developed games or media depicting Western swords have them as being often ridiculously large, even in 3D representations. It's really only things like Souls games, an Elder Scrolls game or The Witcher that you would see a two-handed sword have more of a sensible design. Recent Final Fantasy swords look too stupid for me to even enjoy the game so much (I'm picturing Tidus' right now lol). That's because JRPG tends to be more fantastical and unrealistic, while WRPG (western RPG) focus on a practical design and world. And this is why I prefer JRPG over WRPG. Games that the focus isn't realism shouldn't be realistic in the first place. Ok, if you're talking about a simulator or a game that takes place in a real-like world, then indeed it needs to be realistic. But hey, the game has magic, dragons, demons and other fantastic things, it isn't realistic anymore. Why would a game should try to be "real" when the very fundamentals of it aren't? Your point does make objective sense. I just unfortunately can't shake how "stupid" I think they look. There could be dragons. Mythical creature, breathes fire, flies, etc. It can hurt things by breathing fire on them, stomping on them, eating them, I can get behind and understand the applications of what they're doing in the world. Same for magic, basically. So it's a spiritual energy and it's using the elements or chi or whatnot to project/hurt things and so on. This...: ...how do you even hurt something with this? How do you manage to not hurt yourself even more? Why does it look kind of like...somebody laying on the floor with their arms and legs out? Why are some of those edges sharpened that will probably never come into contact with anything (hopefully not)? When this inevitably gets stuck in...pretty much anything you hit with it, or on your clothes, what do you do? You're certainly not putting it away in any sort of sheath/storage unless it's a giant suitcase. Anyway, and yeah...part of my issue with things like this is like, I was excited because I was getting a classic video game lore weapon, the Masamune. It's iconic, always a great weapon, and usually interpreted as a really nice katana someone made. Whoever made this was more like a drunk CNC machinist. Hammering it out would have been...interesting. Somebody probably lost some fingers doing some grinds.
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Redogan
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Post by Redogan on Jan 28, 2016 21:48:17 GMT -6
My brother could cut this out on the water-jet, but it would be a prop more than a useful weapon. Also, sharpening that thing would be a chore. Lol.
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Post by Maker on Jan 31, 2016 21:23:17 GMT -6
All I ask at this point is Dawnbreaker, Sword of Dawn, whatever it's called has an expy and it is not bottom tier.
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Post by Galamoth on Feb 24, 2016 9:37:30 GMT -6
Ooh, I found some pretty interesting sword designs on Deviant-Art and Google today. The alternate colors of these swords reminded me of the Crafting function that we'll get in Bloodstained. Different properties, such as elements and other effects, may affect the color of the weapon sprite too. If there's going to be swords similar to these in Bloodstained, they're likely to have stained-glass crystals decorating them too. (These designs remind me of the Final Fantasy series. Not the most "realistic" sword-designs you'll ever see, to be sure.)
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