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Post by crocodile on Jul 5, 2016 0:05:59 GMT -6
Zangetsu Speculation
So a lot of people seem to think that Zangetsu will be one of the other playable characters, so I've decided to (much like my Gebel speculation) do a post of how he would function in Bloodstained. There are a few points I wanna cover, and these will be: - Storyline Incorporation
- Controlling Zangetsu
- Debut
I know there isn't a lot to go on, but I will do my best. So, here's how I think Zangetsu will function, should he be a playable character in Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.
-Storyline Incorporation
Zangetsu "comes from a small country far in the East...absolute hatred for not only the creatures themselves but also the Alchemists that brought them to the Earth." I think this will reveal a large part of the plot in the story, should the option be available for Zangetsu to portrait protagonist. I believe that Zangetsu arrives at the demon castle with the ambition to destroy Gebel, and also afflicted with the curse, ultimately Miriam as well. With this insight in mind, I strongly believe that Zangetsu will be one of the story bosses, and defeating him will allude to a large plot reveal further down in the story. As far as story goes, there isn't much to go on, other than the fact that he carries a strong grudge against demons, as they are the source of loss for man of his previous friends, but for some of his limbs as well.
-Controlling Zangetsu
Ok, so one key point I want to bring up, is that Zangetsu uses a unique dual-wielding style not yet seen in the IGAvania series, and I believe this will be implemented well on console controllers. (Sorry, PC gamers) Similar to Miriam's Attack button, and spell button, I believe that the R1 and L1 triggers on the controller will unleashes Zangetsu's katana attacks, (L1 being the left-handed katana, R1 being the right-handed katana, button combination [L1, R1, R1, R1, L1, R1] will unleashes different Bushido techniques) and the rotation analog or 'directional shard' button, will control Zangetsu's Ofuda. Another speculation is the Zangetsu WILL have interchangeable Ofuda spells, however I don't believe that his equipment will be customizable. Zangetsu will level up and be capable or RPG elements, similarly to Miriam.
-Debut
Another popular topic that I would like to discuss is whether Zangetsu will debut in the main storyline first, or the prequel mini game Inti Creates releases. My personal opinion is that Zangetsu will NOT be in the prequel, as it is going to be mostly about Miriam, and what her life was like before the curse afflicted her body. I also predict that the prequel game will NOT be like a classic NES Castlevania, I believe it will be something entirely different. Just some of my thoughts.
So there is my insight for you guys. Sorry it's not a lot to go on, but I figured it's some food for thought until the next update on the kickstarter. So...hope you like this spec. I will probably do Johannes next, though not entirely sure, as Johannes kinda bores me. LOL
Zangetsu seeking out Gebel and coming across Miriam who he also considers an enemy due to her curse - all ensuing in a boss fight - would be a pretty predictable path for the narrative to take. I could see it happening. As for his debut, Miriam wakes up at the beginning of Bloodstained and has been asleep for 10 years. It's part of her bio. As such, she can't star in the prequel - sleep demon hunting seems like it would be tough to pull of. IF Zangetsu is playable, I would think the prequel would be the ideal venue. As for the game type, that's a bit hard to speculate but since its a small project being given away for backers who paid $28+, I'd have to imagine it would be a small game in the vein of Mighty Gunvolt. Since most backers are Castlevania fans, a NES-like Casltevania-esque game seems like the best way to make a mini-game that would please backers but not be a ton of work. What do you think is the best alternative? Another, smaller Igavaina type game? Something else (and if so what? Be specific) Oh, for sure, we'll only be trying to do that again if it is deemed helpful information for the team. I am curious though what the options would be, no idea if something "new" would be possible or just predetermined existing character choices. Just have to see. In my opinion I think Iga should have full say in this matter, he has a storyline in mind and if there were a poll it might derail some of his Ideas... or not what do I really know anyway lol Given the precedent set by every other kickstarter I've seen do something similar to this, the only options we would be given would be pre-determined characters Iga would be willing and interested in writing (or has already written) a playable scenario for. we would neve be given an option he didn't want to do. Just as with the shader vote, they were ok with any option - that's why they let us have a vote. If they weren't interested in an option or didn't like one, they wouldn't have let us vote for it. The timeframe to actually influence what sorts of brand new characters may be written I would think has passed? It would have had to have been sometime last year before Iga was done writing the scenario and I don't think the dev team really knew what we were even saying back before Mana jumped aboard.
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Post by dareka on Jul 5, 2016 0:18:57 GMT -6
Also character vote? Is that an idea people like? The thing with characters is that, without a playable prototype, all you have to go on is the characters' appearance. In the absence of a prototype, I think it's more feasible to vote on a predetermined character's appearance than the character itself. I get the feeling we're a little too late in the game for that, though, plus it would ruin the surprise of who the additional playable characters are. What could maybe be done is something similar but with Miriam's costumes ... like "vote for the costume you'd like to see in the game", or "here are three designs for corrupted Miriam, which do you like best", and such. If it's not in the budget, though, I don't see it happening unless it's paid DLC down the road.
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 5, 2016 0:27:38 GMT -6
Zangetsu Speculation
So a lot of people seem to think that Zangetsu will be one of the other playable characters, so I've decided to (much like my Gebel speculation) do a post of how he would function in Bloodstained. There are a few points I wanna cover, and these will be: - Storyline Incorporation
- Controlling Zangetsu
- Debut
I know there isn't a lot to go on, but I will do my best. So, here's how I think Zangetsu will function, should he be a playable character in Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night.
-Storyline Incorporation
Zangetsu "comes from a small country far in the East...absolute hatred for not only the creatures themselves but also the Alchemists that brought them to the Earth." I think this will reveal a large part of the plot in the story, should the option be available for Zangetsu to portrait protagonist. I believe that Zangetsu arrives at the demon castle with the ambition to destroy Gebel, and also afflicted with the curse, ultimately Miriam as well. With this insight in mind, I strongly believe that Zangetsu will be one of the story bosses, and defeating him will allude to a large plot reveal further down in the story. As far as story goes, there isn't much to go on, other than the fact that he carries a strong grudge against demons, as they are the source of loss for man of his previous friends, but for some of his limbs as well.
-Controlling Zangetsu
Ok, so one key point I want to bring up, is that Zangetsu uses a unique dual-wielding style not yet seen in the IGAvania series, and I believe this will be implemented well on console controllers. (Sorry, PC gamers) Similar to Miriam's Attack button, and spell button, I believe that the R1 and L1 triggers on the controller will unleashes Zangetsu's katana attacks, (L1 being the left-handed katana, R1 being the right-handed katana, button combination [L1, R1, R1, R1, L1, R1] will unleashes different Bushido techniques) and the rotation analog or 'directional shard' button, will control Zangetsu's Ofuda. Another speculation is the Zangetsu WILL have interchangeable Ofuda spells, however I don't believe that his equipment will be customizable. Zangetsu will level up and be capable or RPG elements, similarly to Miriam.
-Debut
Another popular topic that I would like to discuss is whether Zangetsu will debut in the main storyline first, or the prequel mini game Inti Creates releases. My personal opinion is that Zangetsu will NOT be in the prequel, as it is going to be mostly about Miriam, and what her life was like before the curse afflicted her body. I also predict that the prequel game will NOT be like a classic NES Castlevania, I believe it will be something entirely different. Just some of my thoughts.
So there is my insight for you guys. Sorry it's not a lot to go on, but I figured it's some food for thought until the next update on the kickstarter. So...hope you like this spec. :p I will probably do Johannes next, though not entirely sure, as Johannes kinda bores me. LOL
Zangetsu seeking out Gebel and coming across Miriam who he also considers an enemy due to her curse - all ensuing in a boss fight - would be a pretty predictable path for the narrative to take. I could see it happening. As for his debut, Miriam wakes up at the beginning of Bloodstained and has been asleep for 10 years. It's part of her bio. As such, she can't star in the prequel - sleep demon hunting seems like it would be tough to pull of. IF Zangetsu is playable, I would think the prequel would be the ideal venue. As for the game type, that's a bit hard to speculate but since its a small project being given away for backers who paid $28+, I'd have to imagine it would be a small game in the vein of Mighty Gunvolt. Since most backers are Castlevania fans, a NES-like Casltevania-esque game seems like the best way to make a mini-game that would please backers but not be a ton of work. What do you think is the best alternative? Another, smaller Igavaina type game? Something else (and if so what? Be specific) Oh, for sure, we'll only be trying to do that again if it is deemed helpful information for the team. I am curious though what the options would be, no idea if something "new" would be possible or just predetermined existing character choices. Just have to see. In my opinion I think Iga should have full say in this matter, he has a storyline in mind and if there were a poll it might derail some of his Ideas... or not what do I really know anyway lol Given the precedent set by every other kickstarter I've seen do something similar to this, the only options we would be given would be pre-determined characters Iga would be willing and interested in writing (or has already written) a playable scenario for. we would neve be given an option he didn't want to do. Just as with the shader vote, they were ok with any option - that's why they let us have a vote. If they weren't interested in an option or didn't like one, they wouldn't have let us vote for it. The timeframe to actually influence what sorts of brand new characters may be written I would think has passed? It would have had to have been sometime last year before Iga was done writing the scenario and I don't think the dev team really knew what we were even saying back before Mana jumped aboard. I dunno croc, I think the dev team could come up with something pretty cool for the prequel mini-game. It could still be a platformer, maybe just change it up a bit. Also a point-and-click exploration type game comes to mind, however I believe that is highly unlikely as the game will be for consoles as well as PC. Or it could turn out to be like an old-school Resident Evil game, where you have to search around a restricted area to gather clues and figure out a plot. Who knows? Like I said, I dunno how it will turn out. Your guess is as good as mine. :p Also I would like to point out that the prequel mini-game is supposed to be informative, so I believe it will focus more on gathering information, (Searching for clues, talking to NPCs, ETC.) rather than beating the shit outta anyone who dares look atcha the wrong way. :p
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Post by crocodile on Jul 5, 2016 0:35:16 GMT -6
Also character vote? Is that an idea people like? The thing with characters is that, without a playable prototype, all you have to go on is the characters' appearance. In the absence of a prototype, I think it's more feasible to vote on a predetermined character's appearance than the character itself. I get the feeling we're a little too late in the game for that, though, plus it would ruin the surprise of who the additional playable characters are. What could maybe be done is something similar but with Miriam's costumes ... like "vote for the costume you'd like to see in the game", or "here are three designs for corrupted Miriam, which do you like best", and such. If it's not in the budget, though, I don't see it happening unless it's paid DLC down the road. A) For the four characters that we know about, we know more than just their appearance. We know something about their personality, backstory and for some their potential moveset. For the Skullgirls vote, we had pretty extensive knowledge of how they might play (though it was made clear that details were subject to change). For the Shovel Knight bosses their potential movesets were more TBD but there was still more than their appearance to go from. Given the already set precedent, I think it is likely and would be smart that a personality, backstory and potential moveset is given for each potential character in a hypothetical character vote. As an aside, I also don't think its uncommon for people to like characters primarily for their character design nor do I think that's inherently problematic though of course the more factors they consider in their decision the better informed that decision will be and the more likely everyone will be happy. B) I don't value the surprise of "who will be playable?" as much as potentially having a voice in who I might get to play. Who I get to play matters the most since I'll be using them for potentially years. There are also still so many surprises to be held within the context of the narrative overall or for that character specifically. Given how common character voting in crowdfunding campaigns tend to be (Yatagarasu is another game I just remembered that let backers vote of which character would get added to the cast) I don't feel like I have a minority opinion. I can't confirm this of course but such voting campaigns wouldn't be successful if most people would rather relinquish a vote in favor of "the surprise". This would be hard to test however. C) I'm still uncertain how many costumes there will be and how exactly they will be handled but that would be a separate vote from a character vote (if there is a costume vote). I agree it would be lower priority content and likely far off DLC. I dunno croc, I think the dev team could come up with something pretty cool for the prequel mini-game. It could still be a platformer, maybe just change it up a bit. Also a point-and-click exploration type game comes to mind, however I believe that is highly unlikely as the game will be for consoles as well as PC. Or it could turn out to be like an old-school Resident Evil game, where you have to search around a restricted area to gather clues and figure out a plot. Who knows? Like I said, I dunno how it will turn out. Your guess is as good as mine. Also I would like to point out that the prequel mini-game is supposed to be informative, so I believe it will focus more on gathering information, (Searching for clues, talking to NPCs, ETC.) rather than beating the shit outta anyone who dares look atcha the wrong way. To be fair, I think also long as the prequel game has any sort of narrative it can be informative - I don't think "being informative" dictates the genre of the game. I do wonder who is taking the producer/director helm for the mini-game itself though and how much Iga & Inticreates have even thought about it so far. There are obviously genres they excel at and ones they haven't proven their muster in yet. As an example, I like fighting games but I don't know how much of the backer audience likes them and I'm not sure I trust Iga to make a good one since I don't know he has any real experience in the genre.
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 5, 2016 0:50:53 GMT -6
The thing with characters is that, without a playable prototype, all you have to go on is the characters' appearance. In the absence of a prototype, I think it's more feasible to vote on a predetermined character's appearance than the character itself. I get the feeling we're a little too late in the game for that, though, plus it would ruin the surprise of who the additional playable characters are. What could maybe be done is something similar but with Miriam's costumes ... like "vote for the costume you'd like to see in the game", or "here are three designs for corrupted Miriam, which do you like best", and such. If it's not in the budget, though, I don't see it happening unless it's paid DLC down the road. A) For the four characters that we know about, we know more than just their appearance. We know something about their personality, backstory and for some their potential moveset. For the Skullgirls vote, we had pretty extensive knowledge of how they might play (though it was made clear that details were subject to change). For the Shovel Knight bosses their potential movesets were more TBD but there was still more than their appearance to go from. Given the already set precedent, I think it is likely and would be smart that a personality, backstory and potential moveset is given for each potential character in a hypothetical character vote. As an aside, I also don't think its uncommon for people to like characters primarily for their character design nor do I think that's inherently problematic though of course the more factors they consider in their decision the better informed that decision will be and the more likely everyone will be happy. B) I don't value the surprise of "who will be playable?" as much as potentially having a voice in who I might get to play. Who I get to play matters the most since I'll be using them for potentially years. There are also still so many surprises to be held within the context of the narrative overall or for that character specifically. Given how common character voting in crowdfunding campaigns tend to be (Yatagarasu is another game I just remembered that let backers vote of which character would get added to the cast) I don't feel like I have a minority opinion. I can't confirm this of course but such voting campaigns wouldn't be successful if most people would rather relinquish a vote in favor of "the surprise". This would be hard to test however. C) I'm still uncertain how many costumes there will be and how exactly they will be handled but that would be a separate vote from a character vote (if there is a costume vote). I agree it would be lower priority content and likely far off DLC. I dunno croc, I think the dev team could come up with something pretty cool for the prequel mini-game. It could still be a platformer, maybe just change it up a bit. Also a point-and-click exploration type game comes to mind, however I believe that is highly unlikely as the game will be for consoles as well as PC. Or it could turn out to be like an old-school Resident Evil game, where you have to search around a restricted area to gather clues and figure out a plot. Who knows? Like I said, I dunno how it will turn out. Your guess is as good as mine. :p Also I would like to point out that the prequel mini-game is supposed to be informative, so I believe it will focus more on gathering information, (Searching for clues, talking to NPCs, ETC.) rather than beating the shit outta anyone who dares look atcha the wrong way. :p To be fair, I think also long as the prequel game has any sort of narrative it can be informative - I don't think "being informative" dictates the genre of the game. I do wonder who is taking the producer/director helm for the mini-game itself though and how much Iga & Inticreates have even thought about it so far. There are obviously genres they excel at and ones they haven't proven their muster in yet. As an example, I like fighting games but I don't know how much of the backer audience likes them and I'm not sure I trust Iga to make a good one since I don't know he has any real experience in the genre. Hmmm. Yeah that's a good point, I suppose as long as it has narrative, it should be fine. But I am exited to think of what they come up with...!I think the possibilities are limitless. :p
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Post by WindsOfOsiris on Jul 5, 2016 4:12:04 GMT -6
Does anyone else secretly want a HD Alucard? my life would be complete.
Dang it konami give us the rights!
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Post by kronfarfar on Jul 5, 2016 9:00:59 GMT -6
Does anyone else secretly want a HD Alucard? my life would be complete. Dang it konami give us the rights! Oh yes!! But Gebel is KIND OF like Alucard I think =) Pffff Konami! They MIGHT put him as a playable character in PES 2017 but that's it!
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Jul 5, 2016 12:28:15 GMT -6
Does anyone else secretly want a HD Alucard? my life would be complete. Dang it konami give us the rights! Oh yes!! But Gebel is KIND OF like Alucard I think =) Pffff Konami! They MIGHT put him as a playable character in PES 2017 but that's it! ;) Yeah Alucard rocks. I like him a lot more now that I've actually played Symphony of the Night. Too bad Konami would probably never release their grasp on him, even if IGA was the one that conceived him. :/
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Post by sumo9988 on Jul 6, 2016 21:09:46 GMT -6
Finally found this forum. Yeesh, wish someone would've told me my post got moved. Anyways. *Before you continue reading, know that this is only a theory. I am not stating this as fact.*
I feel like it is very likely that Zangetsu will be a playable character if not an ally. Mainly because he's been fighting demons for 10 years. Miriam's also been fighting these demons. He also seems like the mentor type. Maybe he'll occasionally give Miriam a hand. So to speak.
However at the same time he can be an enemy most notably under three conditions. 1. If he takes after Julius and tries to kill Miriam after finding out she has affiliations with the Alchemists. 2. If he takes after Albus and becomes possessed. Be it by Gebel or another Antagonist. 3. If he takes after Richter and trains Miriam to master her powers. (I just realized that I referenced all three DS Castlevania games. lol. Kinda Fitting because those were the ones I first played.) Or he might just be an enemy that doesn't apply to any of those conditions.
Seeing as he loathes the Alchemists. He probably won't get along with Johannes either.
On a further note, we probably will see a bigger cast because we're missing a few roles. - Merchant - Minor Antagonists And maybe a quest giver, though I don't really think that role will be used. Also I wonder if there will be something like the Soul System Yoko employed in DoS. If so we need someone for that too.
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Post by Wally on Jul 15, 2016 22:14:07 GMT -6
Hm, I don't know, guys. I know where you're coming from, wanting there to be "more to" the other playable characters, but I think it would also be great to focus on the uniqueness and customization of Miriam while other characters could have systems that significantly change gameplay in other, fresh "new" ways while also staying quite 'vania. I guess this is a bit of speculation in my head that I haven't gotten around to posting yet, lol. I really expect Zangetsu's gameplay, assuming he is in the game, to be quite reminiscent of Getsu Fuuma. A lot of us were exposed to him the first time as an extra character in Harmony of Despair: His original appearance (whip skeletons!): The weapon, coloration, presence of kanji tied to his attack/design, a hunter of demons in a hellish game world...they seem as close or more related than Miriam is to any Castlevania character imo. Old school Konami developers seem to really like Getsu Fuuma Den anyway, haha. So what I would like and expect in Zangetsu's case is a more traditional power-up style gameplay with drops being augments to sword attacks and abilities using his ofuda, as well as subweapons similar to Fuuma's. Perhaps he could also be a character more reliant on command input attacks? Maybe a charge up > release projectile? He is also certainly the "demon samurai type", certainly collects swords, and has this awesome screen after he does: youtu.be/5VuU2rvPmGI?t=4809 So...yeah, I would rather see them go in different directions with the other playable characters than just be like Miriam. She can be the Alucard, Zangetsu the Fuuma, Johannes(?) the classicvania Belmont...Gebel the Joachim (that's how I've pictured him so far lol)? These characters could still have reasons for exploring all of the castle. For example, Zangetsu's swords or abilities may be improved with the help of an alchemy NPC (Johannes, Miriam) who he trades money/ingredients with. There are a lot of possibilities, and he could still have visual customization effects. tl;dr I like power-ups I feel like a compromise can be reached between the two game play styles. Having a unique gameplay style and being able to equip various pieces of armor/weapons do not have to be mutually exclusive. Granted, Miriam's shard copying ability should be unique to her if that is what you are talking about. The extra playable characters in the past castlevanias have never been that appealing to me. You have a giant castle to explore, but have no real reason to explore since the money/weapons/armor you would find aren't useable for the extra playable characters. This makes exploring the castle feel bland, boring, and more like a chore. Add to this that there may be moments where you would want to level up your character, but there was no menu to let you know how much experience you needed left. At least have a menu screen! A simple solution to this would be to make some of the special abilities unlocksble after defeating a certain boss. If Zangestu is playble, maybe he can start off with the double jump, but would have to unlock the "gravity boots"/the ability that essentially lets you fly. As for the weapons, if Zangestu uses katanas, the weapons he would find throughout the castle could simply be more katanas. Some of them could be elemental or have special properties like increased range. That would still keep his play style unique without it getting stale after a few minutes since attacks lack combos and whatnot.
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Post by Pure Miriam on Nov 29, 2016 8:38:04 GMT -6
2ND and 3RD PLAYABE CHARACTERS As many Igavania games before, Bloostained: Ritual of the Night will have a second playable character. But the game will also have a third playable character, thanks to achievments on stratch goals. How you want those playable characters to work on the game? WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE THE EXTRA CHARACTERS?
Johannes and Zangetsu seem to be obvious options, but maybe someone different that we didn't saw yet? A survivor from the Alchemy Guild? Gebel himself? NO PLOT, SMALL PLOT, OR DETAILED PLOT?
Many Igavania games had extra characters without plot, just a run from the beginning to the end of the game, for pure fun. But there was also some that had a small degree of plot. What do you want for Extra characters on Bloodstained to work out regarding plot? LIMITED GAMEPLAY OR ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY?
Extra characters at past Igavania games had no shop, few powerups, no equips, no new powers. But they could have all that too. That's all folks! This post was a thread before. It was merged with this thread to not spread out the discussion.
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 29, 2016 9:19:08 GMT -6
PM, I don't think you should be disappointed if these threads don't get much activity either, because these topics have all been thoroughly discussed by the regulars before.
Some stretch goals haven't been talked about as much though, like: Local co-op Retro level Asynchronous online Online challenge
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Post by Redogan on Nov 29, 2016 9:46:02 GMT -6
For the extra playable characters, I feel like it should be Johannes and Zangetsu. Their modes should play like Richter Mode in SotN. Basically, you use their unique abilities and powers instead of Miriams. The castle is the same for them. Route through the castle should be different and puzzles should be different and affect what Miriam encounters depending on whether Miriam has already been there.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Nov 29, 2016 18:25:25 GMT -6
Glad to see this being discussed again.
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Galamoth
Ancient Legion
Eternal Guardian
[TI2] Boss of the Floating Catacombs. Hopes nobody finds his hidden Beryl Circlet.
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Post by Galamoth on Nov 29, 2016 19:45:29 GMT -6
The details about Boss Revenge Mode makes me want to say that Gebel might be playable, but only in that specific mode. I've already posted a reply in this thread regarding my thoughts on the chance of Zangetsu being a fully-playable character, but I'll do it again anyway! ("Kicking an undead horse", I'll call it.) Judging from the details about his role in the story, and even his equipment, I think he's definitely got a chance to be the 2nd playable character. Somehow, I still don't get the impression that Johannes has a chance of being made playable. It looks [to me] like his function will be as a gameplay tutorial of-sorts, or as a Shop and/or Crafting service. ^ I'll keep my mind open, though. I'm fully prepared to be proven wrong. Beyond that, I wonder if Miriam (our lovable main protagonist) will be playable in another way besides the main/default campaign mode? Will she be playable in a Fully Cursed state after a what-if "Non-Standard Game Over" scenario?
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Post by Maker on Dec 2, 2016 16:18:35 GMT -6
Unpopular opinion I'm sure but crocodile posted on the 3rd page about the voting in Shovel Knight and Skullgirls for campaigns / characters. While I want to see Bloodstained succeed a lot I was there for the entirety of the cluster#$^T@# that was the skullgirls voting campaign among the community. If you hadn't seen that go down first hand you have no concept of the backhanded douchebaggery that went on with metavoting and all sorts of other hilariously bad ideas at the time. I'm not saying the communitys scumbags or anything like that, the game and the community with it are amazing. However that public voting system for game characters came across as a big mistake IMO as they really should have been allowed to flesh out characters that would have fit or could have been done better than the ones they ended up with. No offense if you liked Eliza or Beowulf (Eliza fan myself) the issue with that is the developers not taking direct control over that part of design it leaves potential for a big cluster... after the fact. It's not something I'd want to do unless Iga (or someone who's in the know) came up and personally recommended that we take a vote to see what the community thinks and makes it clear that in NO way are the results going to be directly related to what actually happens. All of that can be made an exception easily by the way of showing what the character might look like in concept art, and giving a brief description of how they may function. However this takes time away from artist and designers who might otherwise better spend it on the product at hand. If anything with Iga's past we've seen some absolutely insane characters that are unique (or unique enough in their own archetype) and are often fleshed out. The biggest one I'm aware of would easily be Shanoa who again is also easily one of the most broken Castlevania characters I've ever witnessed. But that's kind of what I want to see diversity wise. Zangetsu and Johannes are possible playable characters. We have a very vague idea of what Zangetsu's all about but we know nothing really about Johannes and until we do there's no reason to worry about how or what he does. Fun speculation no doubt, but even if these two are not the only final products and are just tests or possible playable characters I would hope that our useable roster becomes a roster of extreme diversity.
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Post by crocodile on Dec 4, 2016 17:40:23 GMT -6
Unpopular opinion I'm sure but crocodile posted on the 3rd page about the voting in Shovel Knight and Skullgirls for campaigns / characters. While I want to see Bloodstained succeed a lot I was there for the entirety of the cluster#$^T@# that was the skullgirls voting campaign among the community. If you hadn't seen that go down first hand you have no concept of the backhanded douchebaggery that went on with metavoting and all sorts of other hilariously bad ideas at the time. I'm not saying the communitys scumbags or anything like that, the game and the community with it are amazing. However that public voting system for game characters came across as a big mistake IMO as they really should have been allowed to flesh out characters that would have fit or could have been done better than the ones they ended up with. No offense if you liked Eliza or Beowulf (Eliza fan myself) the issue with that is the developers not taking direct control over that part of design it leaves potential for a big cluster... after the fact. It's not something I'd want to do unless Iga (or someone who's in the know) came up and personally recommended that we take a vote to see what the community thinks and makes it clear that in NO way are the results going to be directly related to what actually happens. All of that can be made an exception easily by the way of showing what the character might look like in concept art, and giving a brief description of how they may function. However this takes time away from artist and designers who might otherwise better spend it on the product at hand. If anything with Iga's past we've seen some absolutely insane characters that are unique (or unique enough in their own archetype) and are often fleshed out. The biggest one I'm aware of would easily be Shanoa who again is also easily one of the most broken Castlevania characters I've ever witnessed. But that's kind of what I want to see diversity wise. Zangetsu and Johannes are possible playable characters. We have a very vague idea of what Zangetsu's all about but we know nothing really about Johannes and until we do there's no reason to worry about how or what he does. Fun speculation no doubt, but even if these two are not the only final products and are just tests or possible playable characters I would hope that our useable roster becomes a roster of extreme diversity. I was there on the ground floor for the Skullgirls character vote and I have a hard time making heads or tails of this post. There was obviously some salt (as is the norm for whenever people don't get the choice they want) but Eliza and Beowulf were fantastic additions to the cast. I don't understand how they weren't fleshed out or did not fit. Eliza's Story Mode alone added a lot of lore to the game. This is of course to say nothing of the fact that the character vote was a donation incentive to the IGG campaign. Hypothetically, if we had to vote on which characters out of a set lot could be playable, the designers would have to do all the concepting and design work anyway because these would be characters that would still be part of the game one way or the other even if they weren't playable. Like the entire cast of the Sorrow games or whatever still had to be written and designed even if they aren't all playable. So yeah, I legit have no idea what you are talking about here. I will at least agree with you that I'd hope the overall playable cast offers a lot of diversity in terms of aesthetics and play options.
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purifyweirdshard
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Post by purifyweirdshard on Dec 5, 2016 8:40:12 GMT -6
I'm with crocy on this one, I was there for the voting too and didn't have a problem with it. They -did- provide concept art and a summary of how the characters might function (also giving previously known fighting game examples of how they would work), so...I don't see it. I'm not as into the community for that now, but you're the first person I've seen that had strong negative feelings about how that went. I am at least still big into fighting games and haven't seen much of an issue with it.
I'm also not sure what you meant by Shanoa being one of the most broken Castlevania characters. OoE is pretty much the most balanced IGAvania difficulty-wise, so...I don't know?
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Enkeria
Silver in the Dark
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Amzeer - Aurora of Rebirth
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Post by Enkeria on Dec 5, 2016 13:07:53 GMT -6
Plot-twist. Johannes is the endboss Then Gebel is playable. Or let Mr.Iga be the endboss at that moment?
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Maker
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Post by Maker on Dec 9, 2016 16:19:38 GMT -6
Croc to put it shortly there were no shortage of people in groups during that SG voting campaign that voted based on who they didn't want more than who they did. A lot of it started about half way through the first fan poll then the second it was in full swing with votes allover the place. I watched / read / witnessed a lot of backhanded shit on the voters end, not the devs obviously, who would group up and say they wanted to see X character get in, they wouldn't strait up vote for that character, they'd so stupid shit like vote for the one which that character had the best chances of winning a vote against. etc: That fan campaign was eaten up with those and since you were around for it I shouldn't have to explain how that went down.
I'm not complaining about who / what we got. I got Eliza and Beowulf's not bad. It's not the characters that I'm worried about it's what I saw in the community during the voting that soured my taste on the matter. It might also be somewhat of LZ's fault for being so open about the process but I highly doubt that to be the case seeing as rational people don't tend to be butthurt or just do metavoting.
TL;DR All in all I'm not against the process itself as long as the creators are aware and involved. Just setup the system where things like the metavoting aren't going to be an issue.
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