JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Aug 3, 2016 11:57:20 GMT -6
In all of the hand-held Castlevanias we got limited transformations... eg turn into large demon (or something) and move forward on screen. Which is fine since those systems had such limitations, but we are getting a big game on big consoles so I have some bigger expectations for Bloodstained transformations.
I am hoping for controllable transformations a'la SotN... maybe even leveling those transformations through combat. Mind you, I don't mind the transformation "rush" with really large demons but I still want them to be controllable like maybe charging the rush with the attack button or something like that.
What do you guys think, should the transformations be something simple again or should we have controllable monsters with completely different abilities?
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 12:01:37 GMT -6
In all of the hand-held Castlevanias we got limited transformations... eg turn into large demon (or something) and move forward on screen. Which is fine since those systems had such limitations, but we are getting a big game on big consoles so I have some bigger expectations for Bloodstained transformations. I am hoping for controllable transformations a'la SotN... maybe even leveling those transformations through combat. Mind you, I don't mind the transformation "rush" with really large demons but I still want them to be controllable like maybe charging the rush with the attack button or something like that. What do you guys think, should the transformations be something simple again or should we have controllable monsters with completely different abilities? Something like the Iron Golem Transformation would be pretty damn cool
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Aug 3, 2016 13:23:16 GMT -6
yeah but I want to stomp around as the iron golem... and maybe be able to go through certain walls, not like a ghost but instead more like a wreaking ball.
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Post by estebant on Aug 3, 2016 13:38:17 GMT -6
yeah but I want to stomp around as the iron golem... and maybe be able to go through certain walls, not like a ghost but instead more like a wreaking ball. Go through walls eh? Its a shame Konami would make a Behemoth transformation impossible.
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Shax
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Post by Shax on Aug 3, 2016 14:21:05 GMT -6
I would be satisfied with something along the lines of the transformation from Order of Ecclesia, especially the Black Panther and the Werebat. They were pretty cool. The Iron Golem transformation was cool too aside from only begin able to hold it like 10 seconds (In my own experience).
At the very least, I do hope the transformations are more...involved than the Valkyrie, and transformations of that kind. The charging forward thing doesn't really do anything for me.
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Post by crocodile on Aug 3, 2016 16:35:09 GMT -6
YES! I want (real) transformations so much. When done well they tend to just be super cool and fun in games. I figure these would be shards you find in the castle as treasure or earn from bosses rather than drops from random, small enemies. I don't know if they would be "Effective" shards or "Enchant" shards or some other type of shard. I wouldn't want to retread the same grounds that SOTN did, Alucard is a vampire and all his transformations reflect that (though Soma had a Bat transformation too). But if Miriam is going to be collecting demon shards and what not, there is a lot of room to play with here. You could go with animals, demons, half-human/half-X, etc. Lots of options to go. I know I brought this up in a previous topic (I think the costumes one?), but Nights of Azure is an action RPG with a female (half human/half demon) protagonist who can transform using demon blood and is an example of the last of the options I mentioned: Normal version of Arnice, the protagonist of the game Four of her many transformations. I think half/half transformations are cool because they put a unique spin on the elements present in a particular game and tend to be memorable in function or have memorable/cool designs. They aren't just some copy and past of models or a copy and paste of abilities. If transformations are in Bloodstained I REALLY hope they are more along the lines demonstrated above (though the details of the designs should be and will be more specific to Bloodstained). I recognize that transformations like these are much more work though so that might persuade Inticreates against doing this - if transformations are even on the table at all! Transformations have always been a big part of the Shantae series (some transformations are animals, some are half/half) and during their Kickstater campaign and since its completion Wayforward let people vote on the look for many of these transformations and whatnot. Just like with the familiar vote we had back during the campaign or the shader vote we had later, it would be super cool to have votes for transformations as well (again if they are in the game). It might be too late in the production cycle right now for this conversation to be relevant though which would be a shame. I have no idea though. I do know the community overall has been talking about transformations since the campaign a year ago so I'd like to think Inticreates & Iga are aware of the demand - its just a matter if they themselves want to do transformations at all and if they have the money/time to do them? Tagging Mana 'cause I assume this is a topic people would want her to read and see the ideas proposed
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 3, 2016 16:58:49 GMT -6
I would be satisfied with something along the lines of the transformation from Order of Ecclesia, especially the Black Panther and the Werebat. They were pretty cool. The Iron Golem transformation was cool too aside from only begin able to hold it like 10 seconds (In my own experience). At the very least, I do hope the transformations are more...involved than the Valkyrie, and transformations of that kind. The charging forward thing doesn't really do anything for me. You beat me to it! I also really enjoyed the Catgirl and Werebat transformations, and I would love yo see something like that for Bloodstained. Something like Durga from Aria or Valkyrie from Dawn might be cool too.
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BalancedHydra
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Post by BalancedHydra on Aug 4, 2016 7:44:00 GMT -6
Then maybe we could get a Werebadger form cause... you know... England.
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 4, 2016 11:38:46 GMT -6
As I said in the other thread. If the transformations are limited than I rather them not being in. I don't want a lesser SOTN, I want it to beat it out.
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Pure Miriam
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Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 5, 2016 1:23:32 GMT -6
Damn crocodile, i want to have a Playstation 3/4/vita now! About transformations, i'm all for it! Transformation is a must on Japanese pop culture (just look how many anime/manga/sentai have transformations) so transforming powers is something that i think Bloodstained will have. Iga said on one of those answer videos that he likes transformation, but that requires a lot of resources, so, he needed to see how kickstarter would end, to have a better grasp on how to do that kind of power. The best type of transformation Igavanis had, in my opinion, was on Order of Ecclesia, with Werebat and Black Panther. You transformed and had some exclusive attacks at that form. Now, let me give some ideas of how transformation powers could work on Order of Ecclesia: TRANSFORMATION AS A SET OF POWERS
More or less like Order of Ecclesia, you get a Shard (maybe EFFECTIVE) and when you use it, Miriam changes her form to something else. All her shards and her weapon are locked, and each shard command gains a power instead. So, at Trigger button you have a power coming from that transformation, the same at the Directional command and such. TRANSFORMATION AS A SET OF SHARDS
In order to transform, you need to collect specific shards, equip all of them at the same time, and maybe activate one (probably EFFECTIVE). Alone, this Effective transformation shard just changes some stats and such, but when combined with everthing else, Miriam changes.
A fun, provoking side note: if Bloodstained show us some transformation powers, akin to Order of Ecclesia or something, a thread is bound to show up, complaining about oversexualization... After all, werebat form was naked
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Post by CastleDan on Aug 5, 2016 9:10:27 GMT -6
I like your post Crocodile. I do agree that it shouldn't mimic the same transformations Alucard had because well he was a vampire, Miriam isn't BUT I do think I'd prefer the transformations to be more drastic than the ones you posted. To me seeing the human figure/human form kinda takes away from the transforming idea. I want her to fully become something else that drastically changes how she works.
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Post by estebant on Aug 5, 2016 9:53:04 GMT -6
I personally don't care if we don't get any transformations as long as Boss Revenge mode is well implemented.
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JeffCross
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Post by JeffCross on Aug 6, 2016 7:40:13 GMT -6
Fleshed out transformations or bust.... but really we really need something cool think "Miriam fairy"
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 6, 2016 10:54:41 GMT -6
Damn crocodile , i want to have a Playstation 3/4/vita now! About transformations, i'm all for it! Transformation is a must on Japanese pop culture (just look how many anime/manga/sentai have transformations) so transforming powers is something that i think Bloodstained will have. Iga said on one of those answer videos that he likes transformation, but that requires a lot of resources, so, he needed to see how kickstarter would end, to have a better grasp on how to do that kind of power. The best type of transformation Igavanis had, in my opinion, was on Order of Ecclesia, with Werebat and Black Panther. You transformed and had some exclusive attacks at that form. Now, let me give some ideas of how transformation powers could work on Order of Ecclesia: TRANSFORMATION AS A SET OF POWERS
More or less like Order of Ecclesia, you get a Shard (maybe EFFECTIVE) and when you use it, Miriam changes her form to something else. All her shards and her weapon are locked, and each shard command gains a power instead. So, at Trigger button you have a power coming from that transformation, the same at the Directional command and such. TRANSFORMATION AS A SET OF SHARDS
In order to transform, you need to collect specific shards, equip all of them at the same time, and maybe activate one (probably EFFECTIVE). Alone, this Effective transformation shard just changes some stats and such, but when combined with everthing else, Miriam changes.
A fun, provoking side note: if Bloodstained show us some transformation powers, akin to Order of Ecclesia or something, a thread is bound to show up, complaining about oversexualization... After all, werebat form was naked I actually really dig the idea of Set of Powers. crocodile's idea could be incorporated here too. Maybe the forms could have a set time or a slow mana drain, for the sake of making use of the "Effective" slot in a way that isn't just "end form" (or perhaps another button entirely) Just for a quick example: Transformation shard: Vampire. Miriam's hair turns white, and her attire changes either to a black coat or Victorian-era dress -Her standard attack is a straight-line blood projectile -Bullet Power: Miriam conurs a dark magic orb, which slowly floats forwards and deals constant damage while in contact with enemies -Directional Power: Miriam directs a swarm of bats in the indicated direction. They deal damage and heal her -Effective Power: Miriam turns into Mist, briefly becoming incorporeal and immune to damage. -Familiar: Miriam summons and undead servant to aid her in battle. -Passive: Miriam is immune to dark damage, but takes bonus damage from holy attacks Just a quick idea that came to me, and the template Pure Miriam proposes would also work just fine for more elaborate transformations than what I made up.
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dragonkd
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Post by dragonkd on Aug 6, 2016 19:20:40 GMT -6
transformations shouldn't be as limited, I completely agree.
as far as humanoid transformations, they should keep mirriams normal movement abilities, possibly extend them (sprint, water, flight) have different attacks over her normal weapons and have elemental strengths/weaknesses.
non humanoids can do whatever, but hopefully are made that most of the world is still navagateable with them. if we get another wolf I want some serious speed and agility for instance, not limited to a single jump height.
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BloodyTears92
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Post by BloodyTears92 on Aug 6, 2016 21:26:04 GMT -6
transformations shouldn't be as limited, I completely agree. as far as humanoid transformations, they should keep mirriams normal movement abilities, possibly extend them (sprint, water, flight) have different attacks over her normal weapons and have elemental strengths/weaknesses. non humanoids can do whatever, but hopefully are made that most of the world is still navagateable with them. if we get another wolf I want some serious speed and agility for instance, not limited to a single jump height. I can agree here. I felt like the Wolf form wasn't integrated nearly as well as it could have been. Bat gave you unlimited mobility and Mist was a great panic button, but the Wolf...you only needed it once or twice, the jump wasn't adequate most of the time AND it was a poor combat option. Ecclessia's didn't scale as well as I would have liked but you still got to double jump and really have fun with them. The only times you had to do something else were the Wall-merging segments (forgot the glyph) or the segments where you NEED Shanoa to fly/Magnes points. EDIT: Did they work underwater? I can't remember.
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LeoLeWolferoux
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Aug 7, 2016 0:23:44 GMT -6
Heh, leave it to JeffCross to come up with YET ANOTHER thread idea. :p That's my boy ahaha. Yeah I would love to have more in depth transformations, such as what I stated in the 'Shard Predictions' thread (I believe...?) more akin to the Skeleton/Stuffed Bear Transformation in Circle of the moon with the Pluto/Black Dog DSS combination, or some such as Alucard's Wolf transformation in Symphony of the Night. The trans'. in Aria and Dawn, while slightly overpowered, where very underwhelming aesthetics and utility wise. :/ A good start for Miriam's game, would be to simply have the transformations have multiple attacks, but if they wanted to add more, they could have the transformations have different equipment, (depending on what Miriam's current weapon is) different castle mobility, altered height/width factors, Etc. :p
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Post by Kale on Aug 9, 2016 21:31:50 GMT -6
yeah but I want to stomp around as the iron golem... and maybe be able to go through certain walls, not like a ghost but instead more like a wreaking ball. Go through walls eh? Its a shame Konami would make a Behemoth transformation impossible. Eh? Why would a Behemoth transformation impossible?
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Post by LeoLeWolferoux on Aug 9, 2016 21:46:50 GMT -6
Go through walls eh? Its a shame Konami would make a Behemoth transformation impossible. Eh? Why would a Behemoth transformation impossible? Because Konami sucks eggs, that's why. Lol. Plus without IGA on their team anymore, anything innovative or original is probably out of their competency. :/
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Post by Kale on Aug 9, 2016 21:48:32 GMT -6
Eh? Why would a Behemoth transformation impossible? Because Konami sucks eggs, that's why. Lol. Plus without IGA on their team anymore, anything innovative or original is probably out of their competency. :/ Wait..... maybe I'm reading it wrong... Was that saying that Konami would fail at making it? I was reading it as it wouldn't work because Konami would block Iga somehow.
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